Converting to residential fridge
 

So my rig is an '03 and I'm pretty sure the Norcold 841 propane is original. I'm figuring it's not going to last much longer. I'm also kind of afraid of fire when it does fail. I decided to switch over to a residential (120 volt) fridge. I bought a Frigidaire FFTR1222QB. It's almost the same exterior dimensions as the Norcold. The Norcold is 8 cu. ft. The Frigidaire is 11.5. I found posts on other sites from people using this fridge with a power inverter and they were very happy. I don't presently have an inverter in my rig. I only have two deep cycle batteries for house 12 volt now. I decided to get an inverter just to run the fridge. I know a lot of people use a big inverter so they can run other 120v items. I wanted to keep my costs to a minimum. Not only the cost of the inverter, but the wiring also adds to the cost. Reports are that this particular fridge uses very low wattage. I bought a Xantrex Prowatt SW600 inverter. This is a pure sine wave unit. Less expensive inverters use modified sine wave. Some people say you shouldn't run a fridge on a msw inverter. I also bought the wire kit, fuse holder, and a automatic transfer switch. I got all this from Power Inverters | DonRowe.com. Pretty happy with their selection and cost.

I've gotta run now so I'll update in a bit.

BOB ! can i have the parts out of your Norcold 841??? PLEASE.

i installed an ARP fridge monitor (shuts off the fridge if it over temps). If your still worried install an automatic fire extinguisher -

https://squareup.com/market/fire-and-life-safety

my inverter took a crap a while ago - never replaced it.

we just run the generator if we need ac current (tv, microwave, air conditioners)...otherwise we don't even need ac current (since the fridge is 12v/propane).

I've been considering the Xantrex Prosine 2 (2000w) they also make a 1000 watt version thats cheaper. I like the idea of the remote mounted control/panel and some of the auto on/off features (i don't need a charger since i already have one & this one can be disabled).

Sorry Don, when I took the Norcold out I put an add on craigslist and had about 5 replies in a few hours. I gave it to the first guy. He's going to put it in a fish house (we fish on frozen lakes up here in MN you know.

After pulling out the Norcold I removed the copper gas line that ran down to the manifold near my propane tank. I got a galvanized plug to screw into the manifold where I removed the line. I need to plug the hole where the copper line came into the cabinet. Thinking maybe foam spray there? Or silicone sealant?

Next is cleaning up the side walls in the opening. The builder had lined both sides with fiberglass batting. I pulled that out and it's left a lot of scruffy remains. I tried vacuuming with the shop vac. It cleaned it up some, but not that great. I used some duct tape to stick it on and pull off. That takes a lot of it off but it's rather time consuming. Any ideas how to clean that up? I don't know how they applied the batting. I wonder if they used some adhesive spray?

I need to seal off the outside access vent panel. With the residential fridge you don't want the back of it exposed to the elements. I'm thinking of cutting a piece of rigid pink foam insulation board to fit the opening and glue it to the inside of that plastic panel?

Also need to seal off the roof vent cap. Thinking maybe the same as how I intend to seal the side vent.

If anybody has advice feel free to offer it up here.

Let's see if I can get some pictures to work here.

bummer but still went to a good home.

I'd use silicone sealant (thats what the mfg used) it won't attract water like the foam may.
You might want to use some thompsons water seal or something on the exposed (to the exterior) wood & then just insulate (blue foam board insulation?) the hole and leave the factor vent cover in place.

How many watts does that fridge consume?
I'll be curious to hear your experience / battery run time when dry camping.

I think while traveling you're fine, if your coach is like ours, where the engine alternator charges the house batteries.

My guess is you'll be hunting for some solar panels and a charger to help you keep those batteries topped up during the day so you can avoid the generator run time.

I'm planning to leave the vent covers in place as original. Just need to insulate inside of them. I'm a little concerned about that roof vent. There is plywood up there from the roof. Thinking about maybe cutting a piece of plastic to seal off the vent up there under the roof vent. Then putting the foam board under that. I think if I can do that then if any water does manage to get in there it should stay up in that cavity until it evaporates.

There's a guy on another forum that has the same fridge. He said he runs his on a 400 watt modified sine wave and has for three years. He said he's only got two group 31 deep cycle and no solar. Said he can run it for a week without running the generator. I don't think I'll get that kind of run time. I'm happy to run the generator everyday for a bit. I think it's better to run it than not. I don't know about adding solar. I just don't want to spend a lot of money and I don't want to drill holes in the roof. I wonder about getting a solar panel and setting it up on a stand or something as needed?

Could you use a hand wire brush to remove the rest of the batting?

I am going to be doing similar conversion on mine once it warms up. I have a "Notcold" 1200 (12 cu ft) model, and it is a POS. Will not get real cold if ambient temps outside are above mid 80's. Warm beer is for the UK guys, my Notcold must be a Lucas designed frig!

The typical replacement many use for this 1200 is the Samsung RF18 model, which is an 18 cu ft; same width and is counter depth. It also has nice low energy usage, I hear 350 watts vs around 600 for the 1200 on AC power. I bought the frig, but still need the inverter; I will look into your link provided. Then just do the installation work, which does involve some cabinetry mods, since the Samsung is approx 6-8 inches taller than the Notcold. I have storage drawers under the current 1200, so will lose those and then have to build new base floor for new frig. I am looking forward to the swap and having a frig that actually works good.

With doors off the Samsung, it is 24 inches, which will easily fit through my 26 inch side door opening.

This is the set up I am planning for my coach. Please keep us posted.

Just out of curiosity, what are the advantages of an all electric fridge over an electric/propane model? I see that the all electric models seem to be preferred in the newer coaches.

pros: cheaper to replace than conventional / propane fridges, more capacity (due to physical size)

cons: require 120vac, no alternative, limited mfg/sizes to fit the same location, larger.


personally no more power or propane than what our Norcold 841 takes i like the option of being able to run on 12vds (for weeks)

The only thing I wonder, is that model of fridge you guys are using designed for a "built in" installation as opposed to free standing? A fridge is basically a heat exchanger and if you don't have enough airflow around the back to cool the coils it won't work very well if it is not designed for an enclosed space.

Our Samsung is installed with an open area in the rear and the kitchen cabinet side below the counter is open so that there is plenty of airflow around it. We like the amount of room and most importantly the constant temperature regardless of the weather. We must keep extra insulin in it when traveling for weeks at a time. The LP/Elect Norcold in our previous coach would not keep the temperature at a 44 degree maximum in the summer. Our batteries, 300 amps total, will run the fridge for 6-8 hours before they are 50% discharged. The fridge uses 3 amps at 120V using the inverter. The truck alternator keeps the batteries charged when driving so you only need the generator when dry camping.

only 300amps total in batteries ? how many and what kind do you have?

less than 1/2 a day run time imo isnt acceptable for the way we travel (dry camping at race tracks).

After reading this install article in MotorHome Magazine I installed the Smart RV Products fridge -fix (blows air over the cooling fins inside the fridge). The system works really well.

We were in 100+ degree temps for over 5 weeks this past summer & we never had any cooling (or icing) problems with our fridge and we were constantly switching between 120VAC & propane.

The Fridge-Fix system works MUCH better than the fan solution from RV Cooling Unit Warehouse....which i gave away to a friend.

Both systems made a huge difference in cooling the fridge down (when switched on) and both reduce icing but i still had icing with the RV Cooling Unit Warehouse system.

With out one of these cooling fan systems i would say that a residential fridge has the advantage of NOT icing or needing defrosting.....BUT i also have a residential fridge in my garage (for beer) and in the summer it struggles to maintain 43 degrees so i would say there is no real guarantee that a residential unit will keep things really cool in the summer.

If we were full timers i could see the residential fridge advantage just because of the interior size (and anti-frosting)

Just to add, I have added the small fans inside the frig to blow over the coils and circulate the air, the Norcold still struggles to get cold. Low 40's is not acceptable to me inside frig. We don't typically eat out much when camping, so having food stay cold is important.

I will live with the need to fire up the generator when dry camping, likely need it for A/C anyway. To me the advantage of the residential frig are better performance and more storage space inside. Also quicker recovery, the Norcold seems to take a long time to recover when you load a bunch of warmer stuff inside. I am tired of screwing with the Notcold POS.

Copy that. Thanks for the info.

In my case. I am building a 100% electric coach. I am not using propane for anything.
I have run an 120v fridge in my old C class for years. I just left the original fridge door in place to vent outside and built the fridge into the cabinets. It is by far the best RV fridge I have ever had. I have not tried to run it on an inverter though. I have always thought about it, but my maximum travel time in the old girl " 1984 holiday rambler alumilite" is about 8 hours from home. The fridge and freezer stay good and cold for that amount of time.
Frankly the best thing I ever did was convert the Fridge and Hot water to 120v. I don't cook inside, so I have not hassled with filling the propane tanks in over 10 years. You would be amazed at what reducing your prep check list will do for your enjoyment.:D

That is what spurred my inquiry. I've noticed that Renegade's "top of the line" TCs are all electric, with Aquahot heat. Part of me thinks it is a great idea to simplify and do away with one type of fuel. Part of me feels as thought it is putting all my eggs in one basket. I guess it depends on how much you dry camp or how much you mind running your genset.

In theory your eggs are not in one basket. You have 12vlots charging your coach batteries with either the engine running or the Genset running. You can get a 1 circuit transfer switch pretty cheap. to run off of the inverter or shore power. My new coach is even getting a heat exchanger in the water heater. That way I have hot water as soon as I set up.
Locally it is a complete PIA to get my propane tanks filled. The hardware stores won't do an rv and the campground nearby takes forever (which is good so you can earn enough money to pay what they charge).

The inconvenience of the built in propane tank is what made me take notice of the all electric concept. Getting my rig into a convenient propane fill is a real chore too.

if a propane/electric fridge can't maintain colder than 40* imo theres something wrong w/ the fridge - even in texas/arizona (110*+) weather we've never had a problem.

the manufactures are moving to residential fridges as a mean to reduce cost & increase margin (having a few well publicized fires probably hasn't hurt either).

Face it MOST RV'er don't dry-camp anyway, its the racers who dry camp...and racers have largely purchased conversion trucks.

The more serious dry-campers want to use as little 120vac as possible.

In 5 years time I've consumed less than 15 gallons of propane. I guess I've topped the propane tank up THREE times (mostly cause i didn't have a feel for what i would consume)....none of those times has been difficult (at my local tractor supply store, 2x & once at a Flying J. even towing).

One difference I've noted from one camper to the next is the way they vent the refrigerator. The correct way to do it is a roof vent so that you get a chimney flue effect drawing plenty of air over the coils and making the fridge more efficient. You see some folks that use a second side door higher up on the wall for the upper vent and imo there no way that would get a free flow of air through the space. Those doors are constructed to allow air to flow freely in and up, and air would would not flow freely down and out through those same holes as the rising air would have to hit the top of the space, then work its way back down to the door holes. I am assuming they do it that way for expense or convenience or the desire to have one less roof opening. When I did a rv fridge install from scratch in my race trailer through the roof I never had a problem staying plenty cold and everything frozen no matter how hot it got outside, and that was with no air conditioning on inside when it sat in the driveway. I'm curious if any of you that had issues staying cold had the sidewall style vent vs. the roof vent?

Mine is vented out the roof. I never had problems keeping food cold in hot camping. I'm switching for the various pros listed above. My biggest is that I'm worried about the ammonia leaking and catching fire. I am a little worried about how long I'll be able to run it on my two house batteries and inverter. If run time is not acceptable I'll probable see if I can fit a couple 6v golf cart batteries along the frame somewhere underneath there.

Got a fair amount of work done. Used 2" pink foam board insulation to block off the roof and wall venting. I sealed it down with a bead of silicone sealant. The plywood that the fridge sits on was only held up by a piece of 1x across the front and back. I decided that wasn't probably as strong as I want. So I cut some 2x6 and 2x4 (used what scrap I had around) and glued those to the side walls underneath (running vertically) and then ran some sheet rock screws down through the plywood into the ends of the 2x's. I think they will be under compression so not worried about them falling out of place. I had to trim back the side and top wood to allow the ever so slightly larger fridge fit in. I also wanted to allow as much air to circulate in there. I'm possibly going to cut some holes in the base plywood back near the back to allow air to circulate through. I'll see how tight the fridge is first. Other option is to put a vent in the side wall near the lower end of the cabinet.

Let's see if I can get the photos to work here:

Roof vent closed off:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Ql...=w1144-h643-no

Good, they're working.
Rear vent blocked off:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UH...=w1144-h643-no

This shows the 1x that the plywood base rests on.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/MV...Q=w362-h643-no

Couple 2x's in place.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_c...=w1144-h643-no

Here's where the inverter is going to go. Next to the bed. My electrical panel is mounted in the foot end of the bed. The house batteries are in a compartment directly under this. I think it shouldn't be a huge deal to run the 4 gauge wire down there. I'm probably going to use flexible non-metallic weather tight conduit. Similar to what they use to connect your house a/c unit to the disconnect on the side of your house. I've got a spool of that on the shelf.

Ooops, looks like something spilled in that cabinet. I better clean that up before MrsBob86ZZ4 spots it.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sE...=w1144-h643-no

My electrical panel is mounted in the foot of the bed so it should work well to wire over from this cabinet into the bed platform and run down to the panel. I'll try to remember to take pictures while doing that.

Strange.... I see no pictures :(

Really? I see them. Hhhmmmm. Might be set to private or something. I'll try to figure it out.

same here bob...no pictures

Do you have an electric/propane water heater? did come that way or did you add the electric part?

Sam

I see your pictures bob.

How come Sam can see my pictures and Don and Tom can't?

Sam, my water heater is 120 volt or propane. I have two switches on the wall so I can decide how I want to turn it on. Came that way. Same for the water heater in my Allegro I had before this one.

Don and Tom, can you see this picture:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tM...=w1144-h643-no

I can see the last picture you posted, but none of the prior.

I just got mostly done with my Norcold 1200 to Samsung RF18 conversion this weekend while the weather was nice here. I need to take a picture, but basically I removed the old Norcold which consisted of disconnect the gas and water lines, disconnect two 120v plugs, and remove all the mounting screws in front under the trim piece, and two screws at the back. I removed the doors from the Norcold and the internal shelves. Then just slid it out and then out of the MH.

The conversion for the new bigger size Samsung required a significant amount of cabinet work to lower the mounting floor and increase the opening size. On my MH there were two drawers approx 8 inches high below the frig, and then two smaller cabinet spaces above the frig around 5 inches height. The difficulty is those bottom drawers are short length, as heating ducts and some water lines run behind the drawers and under the frig. So I could not just eliminate the drawers, I still needed to have space for those ducts and lines. In addition, there are the two vent pipes going up the wall for the grey and black tanks, and they sort of 45 deg degree at the height of the old frig floor. So between the ducts and the tank vent pipes, I could not go all the way to the floor. I ended up figuring out I could use the pieces of wood that made up the top cabinets, with cut down height drawers, so I now have two drawers approx 5 inches height that use the doors from the cabinets. This gave me minimum height for the ducts and lines, and using some creative notching of the plywood base for the vent pipes, I could make the new floor about 3 inches lower than it was before. Eliminating the upper cabinets was no real loss, and i was able to reuse the piece going across that previously was the piece that was on top of the lower drawers. That piece just sits flush now at the top of the opening. In the end, I gained the height needed for the Samsung, still kept the lower drawers. I sealed the top vent opening with some styrofoam form the new frig packing, and glued in place with silicone caulk. Still need to make a permanent seal for the MH side lower opening. I did have to make a bit longer plywood floor so the rollers and mount brackets for the Samsung would sit right. Still need to paint that piece and maybe cut it back some to be more stylish. It is bare plywood now.

I removed the doors from the Samsung and was able to get it through my side door without too much problem. The lift into the opening and once adjusted into position, I used the factory front leveling feet brackets to mount it solid to my base. The factory brackets have feet, but I just drilled holes through the plywood and put bolts up through, sandwiching a 1 inch spacer. New frig is not going to come out, although I should maybe add a top bracket, just for insurance.

I still need to do the wiring, and the inverter mounting. Just happy it is all in place now and I was able to do it without major wood work, reusing those cabinets door fronts with the shorter drawers has it almost looking like it was designed that way.

I will try to get some pics, I was too busy doing the work and forgot to take pictures during the process.

Yep, I can see the last picture, but not the others. It don't make sense to me.

Got some poor pictures, but to show the changes. Still in-process, need to trim back the plywood so it does not stick out as much, probably will contour it for more style. Until the frig was in place, too hard to know exactly, now I can cut it back to fit and be less obtrusive. Also considering to paint it black so it blends in vs painting clear which would not match the oak. Although the orig picture does not show the top cabinets that no longer exist, the close-up you can see the doors that are now the shorter drawer fronts.

Old Norcold 1200 frig:
https://www.truckconversion.net/attac...4950f5dd04.jpg

New Samsung RF18 frig
https://www.truckconversion.net/attac...830ba7afe9.jpg

Close-up of the front mounts:
https://www.truckconversion.net/attac...b92efe7b59.jpg

Thanks for the info on your conversion 38Chev! I like your idea of removing the front levelers and bolting through the plywood into the fridge there. That was one thing I hadn't worked out yet. I know I don't want to secure it from the back bottom because I've sealed off that vent so now don't have easy access back there. I had thought about somehow making the foam removable but rules that out. Your idea sounds like it might work for me. I haven't gotten the fridge up into place yet to see how that will work. I'm also think about removing the rear rollers since I'm not too concerned about scratching the plywood while putting it in place. I'm thinking I'll use the top door hinge bolts to attach a bracket to and then attach to the wood when I slide it in. Top and bottom securing sounds like the great idea to me. Did you do anything about venting the cabinet into the room? Allowing air behind the fridge? I think I'll have about 1/2" clearance all the way around mine. Not sure if that is enough?

Found out I can't edit my posts to fix the picture problem. Apparently we have 120 minutes to edit a post and then it gets locked. So, I made a new album in my picasa and made sure to set it so everybody can view them (I think). Let's see if this works.

Here's the opening after the removal of the propane fridge:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0...2017.04.51.jpg

You can kind of see the wood trim has a lip to it that I removed to make the opening bigger.

Here's the trim after the rough cut back (I later used a belt sander to smooth it out a bit):

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2...2012.03.30.jpg

Another one showing the trim cut back:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4...2012.03.36.jpg