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Old 07-24-2005, 07:00 AM   #11
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Location: Urbana,Illinois heading tor St. Louie
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Jexcar,
jAs I am sure you know if something is said enough times people eventually start beleiving it.. and some things are said over and over on this and other boards... mostly by the same person.. Glitz is not ONLY used to cover something up.. or maybe some people ONLY use it for that and therefore assume everyone else does too.. I don't know.. as you said what counts is WHAT THE CUSTOMER WANTS. I must say your rigs are definetely 'diferent'... and that is not necessarily a bad thing.
Dont let anyone run you off .. you are welcome to the board by at least nearly all and your expert knowledge will be thuroughly utilized I am sure.. "not very nice" was a very diplomatic reaction.. I would not have been so diplomatic... 'Rude' would have been my term for it.

good luck.. where is your plant located actually?
thanks again,
John
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Old 07-24-2005, 03:23 PM   #12
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Kaye,
It's really unfortunate that you feel the need to continually knock me down. The fact is, once our cage is complete we have a true rectangular smooth interior, and there are no protrusions, poor engineering or lack of forethought to contend with. To incinuate such a thing is just in poor taste. Our units take as much as 5 to 6,000 man hours to complete and I assure you a great deal of that is hours of careful planning, design and the application of years of experience.

Could you please direct me to a link of the many units you have built where you gained the experience and level of expertise to earn the right to insult my product. I would appreciate it. It would lend your insults some credibility.

As far as the comment "....after you look at trailers for a while you get the feel for crappy design and rough construction...". Are you calling me a "newbie" just cause I'm new to this forum? I've spent my whole life looking at and building trailers, just cause you're an armchair expert, doesn't mean you can look at a couple of snapshots of a trailer and decide that some glitz means that the trailer is completely shoddy. Thats ridiculous. I've spent my whole life building stuff like this and I can't tell if something is shoddy until I walk up to it and look around.

Just to qualify your claims, please pick one picture from my website and describe a piece of "glitz" that hides a defect in engineering. You described mirrors over beds and idiot srips lights, but alas, those are two things we have never put in ANY unit, ever. Please. I would just like to hear one example. It should be easy for you since you are such an expert.

Basically the only point you have actually backed up so far is that you used to build shoddy houses and used trees to hide your mistakes. And I have yet to install a tree in a trailer.
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Old 07-24-2005, 03:45 PM   #13
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John,
Thanks for post. I've come across a few people like kaye in my years and it won't dissuade. The fact is, the vast majority of the people like my work and more importantly my customers do. Kaye is an example of someone who is not and never will be my customer. That's why there are so many builders out there, people have different tastes. I don't know what Kaye thought he would gain by knocking me, especially since his statement his so ludicrous to me. All he did was just irritate me and for no reason. I respect his opinion of not liking the units because everyone has a right to not like something, but to say that it was to hide poor design is just ignorant and unsubstantiated. All he did was make a new enemy. Pointless.

Our factory is located in Vancouver BC, but 95% of our customers are located in the United States with the majority of them being in Los Angeles. We cater to business users more than consumers, thats why we dont build a lot of Class 8 conversions. We have done a couple of dozen bus conversions, a dozen Class 8 motorhomes and then a a few hundred specialty trailers as our website is littered with. But the methods, designs, systems and challenges are all the same, it's just that most of our units don't have an engine.
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Old 07-25-2005, 11:01 AM   #14
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Location: Athens, Alabama
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Jexcar -
I have spent a couple hours on your website the last few evenings, and I have come up with a couple questions I am hoping you can answer for me.....
I really like the use of curved lines in the cabinet work... is that real wood, a laminate, or...? Very, very nice, clean lines.
What materials do you use to cover your walls? I like the two-tone look, and need something that is easy to keep clean (and not exorbitantly expensive!!) for my own project.
I really like the tile in the bathrooms, in particular inside the 53 and 46 foot Celebrity Suites. Is that marble/granite? If so, what kind of installation procedures do you use to prevent the large tiles from cracking? Special underlayment or adhesives?

Thanks for your time, and I look forward to your reply.

Travis
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Old 07-25-2005, 03:57 PM   #15
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All of our cabinetry is real wood, no paper veneers, laminate or otherwise. However, I would say that with the diverse selection of quality laminates out there these days, there is absolutely nothing wrong with laminate cabinetry, especially if you are looking for a high gloss durable finish. The only reason we haven't used it yet is the customers we have prefer real wood and haven't requested laminate yet. The only downfalls to laminate are repeating grains, dealing with the edges and if you get a crack, dent or make an error during construction there is no way to fix it perfectly without changing the entire sheet. Also compound curves can be a real nightmare.

Most of our walls are simply wall papered with a high quality commercial grade vinyl wallpaper, and a lower hardwood wainscotting. If you're gonna use wallpaper, always use vinyl paper and glue, DON'T use prepasted paper wallpaper, it just won't last especially with varying humidty and temps during the winter storage months. If you have some standard interior sheating in your unit just overlay it with 1/8" Luan and sand smooth, then wallpaper away.

It's marble flooring in the 53CS and granite in the 46CS. Our main solution to potential cracking issues is usually a rigid frame with an even more rigid floor under the tile. No cracks yet. We build our units with lower box frame consisting of many lateral bulkheads, trussed sidewalls etc. This all but elminates most twist and sag to our trailers so much so that if you park it on even slightly uneven ground without blocking, one of the landing legs won't touch the ground, it'll just hover. This is however is not viable for an RV unit, as weight is of a more paramount concern. Whereas our customers usually don't care how much the unit ways, as long as its well built.

I do know that there are flexible adhesives and grouts available, which is necessary if you think you're gonna get flex in the floor. I've even seen them in the tile aisle at Lowes or Home Depot.
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Old 07-25-2005, 07:27 PM   #16
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Jex,

I applaud your handling of Kaye, he can be a bit grumpy at times and some times the same old thing comes out. Enjoyed looking at your units. Judging by what you build them for, the corners are square and you won't need trees or bug eyes to hide them!! Thank you.
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Old 07-25-2005, 10:22 PM   #17
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Location: Kingman AZ.
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Jexcar,

Any luck on finding an accordion seal supplier near Arizona for me? How is it joined?

When you mention glue for the wall paper, do you mean just a normal heavy duty wall paper adhesive or something stronger? We have 1/2" ply walls which we intend to fill the screw holes, etc. and skim before sealing and wallpapering.

As ours was originally a Grumman box body, it has an aluminum exterior skin with "Z" channel supports about every 16", so we used 1" Celotex foam which fitted in the "Z" channel and then we went over it all with 1/2" Celotex and 1/2" ply to make a 2" wall with nearly R-12 of foam insulation. We have 4" of Celotex in the roof too.

We have just returned from a 6 week, 6,500 mile trip with it 90% finished and had no real problems other than a leak at the cab boot and a loose window leaking...... Ooops!!!

Thanks for your imput, it is much appreciated.

Peter.
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Old 07-25-2005, 11:20 PM   #18
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....JEXCAR.....are you having a sensitive day?....Will this be over in a day or two?.....It's not personal with me-try not to get a rash or anything....you cater to showpeople so you have to glitz it because that is how they live. Build a high quality coach/unite and it speaks for itself! Production line unites built here in USA are being re-evaluated by insurance companies currently just as condos in Florida.....guess what is coming....many unites will not be able to be insured for that they are sold for-the owner is up-side down right out of the box-some are going to have to be 2nd mortaged...There is a movement for standards-but not RVMA standards coming-developed by the feds/insurance co's....major insurance companies are looking at their loss/risk numbers....which are climbing....last time I heard the average is a $15.00 per vehicle on the road per year...Ins. Co.s are a driving force in the RV industry wether we like it or not.....you can't drag/drive it down the highway without insurance or the fines and towing/confiscation runs into the thousands.....Also there is a little issue called Homeland Security fueling the movement also.....The rental truck industry is seeing a major security movement. States are now required to Check out CDL's and validate all drivers.....times are a changing and your market is getting competative which will certainially affect your bottom line....In the last 5 years we have seen a lot of converters open their doors-these people have built a lot of trailers/coaches and have a few bucks behind them....I don't know of any people on this list that are entertainers[not for sure] but your marketing could be aimed at non-entertaining persons-and IMO be more relevant and maybe increase your bottom line....afterall that is what it's all about....glad I struck a sensitive nerve.....whether I buy a unite from you or Randy Butler or Wildside in a few years. It is good to have a manufacture with the stones to stand his ground....'specially in todays PC climate.....sorry if you got your undies in a bunch......but we do need to liven up this board some.......geofkaye
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Old 07-26-2005, 10:28 AM   #19
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Jex
Welcome and thanks for joining this board
as a diehard DIYer i realy appreciate your posts

Kaye, as a builder of high end dune/desert buggies i know how that works with the "Glitz" or "bling bling". there is a lot of "chrome plated dogsh...t" out there. but i would not say that everything that looks "bling" has to be crap.

but anyway i realy enjoy seeing different ideas.
Jex, great website! , hope you hang with us here for some more Truck`n`Trailer talk
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Old 07-26-2005, 03:27 PM   #20
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Madbrit,
I a left a message with my supplier up here but I have yet to find it. Will let you know. The adhesive i was talking about was a heavy duty vinyl wallpaper adhesive, pretty generic stuff, just dont waste your time with the prepasted, it just won't last in changing climates/humidity. Plus if you get another little leak its all falling off. When you pick out your wallpaper,consider something with a bit of texture, will help to hide slight imperfections that exist in your wall now and after 5 years of going down the inerstate.

Kaye,
I think I sniffed a little bit of a compliment with that "stones to stand his ground" comment. Thanks.

Spooner,
Thanks for the kudos. That's why I posted our sight, just cuz it's a bit different anyways. You don't see it at every street corner.
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