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Old 03-23-2005, 09:20 AM   #11
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Holy BBQ Batman!

Thanks for the info and the pics. I think they may explain the differences in the prices from the various conversion companies. It also helps all of us know what questions to ask and what the answers to those questions should be.

Thanks again, John
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Old 03-23-2005, 09:46 AM   #12
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Wow...some pictures. Sorry to hear of the loss of the rig. Fortunately, no one was hurt.

You bring up good points about wiring safety on rigs. Who verifies the wiring, capacity and distribution of the circuits if there is no documention supporting the manufacturing. Who also would troubleshoot the systems if there are no "as built" prints.

Just an example of what all the builders should do, and provide to their customers.
12 vdc wiring
120 VAC Wiring
Plumbing
 
Old 03-23-2005, 09:16 PM   #13
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.....there really are very very few legal issues having to do with the manufacture of any motorhome or boat....in terms of HVAC/Plumbing/120vac/2vdc....When I built my trailer all 120vac is in commercial code conduit metal & plastic and the 12vdc is abrasion resistant covered cable used in commercial fire equipment[it was free] plumbing [HW@108degrees air pressure driven or shore provided pressure] is in good grade of 1/2" garden hose with metal fittings and SS band clamps....there is only one waste pipe to outside from the shower and sink in pvc and clear vinal plastic pipe......toilet is all electric.....no propane in trailer.....geof kaye
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Old 03-24-2005, 04:59 AM   #14
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It seems clear that many things will work just fine. What doesn't work is carelesness and ignorance. If the important things are done right, it does not have to be very sophisticated or exotic.
If you run wires near a sharp edge, either get rid of the sharp edge or protect the wire. Not exactly rocket science.
If you keep adding stuff to an existing circuit, check to see if the wire can handle the extra current.
Make sure that all of your connections are secure.

I just think that many manufacturers struggle to make ends meet by cutting corners.

Whether it is using inferior materials, not taking the time to design and review the proposed project.
Hiring lower cost labor or unemployable (i.e., people that can't pass drug tests other places).
Not training employees on the workmanship standards that are expected or even having workmanship expectations.
Many Coaches are delivered "not quite done".
Customers push for a delivery and manufacturers don't want to disappoint, (or more likely need that check), by missing the delivery.
This causes rushing which can't help but cause mistakes.
The lesson here is be diligent, ask questions, look at what you are buying, or check carefully what you have bought and have a great time.
That is after all why we buy or build these things. Nothing is more fun than hitting the road.
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Old 03-24-2005, 04:22 PM   #15
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It seems to me that the emphasis with Kingsley is on glitz and glamour, rather than quality construction and attention to the IMPORTANT details. Are you listening, Ralph Dickenson?
Gary
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Old 03-24-2005, 06:54 PM   #16
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At any price, these Truck Based RVs are a big investment. I think people should buy what they want. This Forum, (thanks WARPATH) Is a great way to be sure you get what you think you are getting. After all, who knows better than someone that has had one?
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Old 03-24-2005, 09:19 PM   #17
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....customer: I will say you are a lot quiter than I would be....you'd hear me screaming and b*tching on CNN FOX MSNBC and the senate floor.......geof kaye
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Old 03-25-2005, 04:39 AM   #18
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Before we get Congress involved and burn Kingsley at the stake, we need to be clear on some things.

It was stated that the insurance company paid the claim and I am assuming they did not go after Kingsley otherwise that would have been stated as well.

And I assuming that since you Kingsley Customer where out $80,000 you would have sued Kingsley as well if they where determined to be at fault.

So was Kingsley determined to be at fault?

I would think that that insurance agency crawled all over the remaining part of that rig looking at the wiring to determine if it was poorly installed to determine who or what is at fault. And again if they did not sue, they must not have found anything?

There are a ton of components in rig that are manufacturered by other companies, any one of which could have a defect and cause something like this to happen. Did they ever come up with a ultimate cause of the fire?

I am not defending Kingsley, they can /or did /or will do that themselves. I also wasn't there and I do not know the whole story, and I don't know Kingsley side of what happened.

I think Kingsley Customer brought up some excellent points about wiring, something we really have not keyed on in the past. It is definetly something for a buyer to look into when they are spec'ing out a new coach.

I did alot of research since this post came about; I talked to some other Kingsley owners to see what they thought about this and their coach. I will say all of them are extremely happy with their rigs and the workmanship that went in them. I also spoke to my builder, looked into what they do and came away even more impressed than I was before (I know that seems impossible the way I blubber on about them)

So before we form a lynch mob we have to have all of the details, and unfortunetly, I don't think that is possible.

Bill
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Old 03-25-2005, 06:31 AM   #19
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My responses are measured because it's my stomach lining that will get a hole in it if I continue to be aggrivated.

As far a suing Kingsley, They are broke so even if you win, what do you get?

My first call when I got to the scene and saw what had happened was to my Insurance Company and left the info. with them.
Then I called Ralph at Kingsley. He said he couldn't believe it and that he would send his ex-partner/ brother in law out to see it the next day, since he lived near there.
His brother in law was an fireman at some point, and we walked through the wreckage and he took some pictures.
He said that the fire obviously started in the Kenworth under the hood somewhere.
Nobody had seen the pictures that I have posted here yet because they were being developed at that point and nobody knew they existed.
The Fire Inspector had unspecified origin listed as the cause of the fire.
Ralph at this point said if I had a beef it should be with Kenworth, not Kingsley.
I went through the task of making an inventory of all the stuff that was in the rig. It took almost 1 week to sift through the stuff.
The insurance adjuster came out, but they are car adjusters and they know a fender bender but not something like this.
It was then sent to a Sr. Fire Investigator who tried to find the cause...
At this point the pictures that I have posted became available. Everybody got a copy.
Kingsley at this point avoided my insurance company's calls and didn't want to talk to anyone. They did continue to talk to me about replacement cost...

About a year ago, Kingsley inquired about who had the wreck and could they buy it, they told me they needed a generator and some other parts that they could reuse.
I gave them the insurance company's number. The company would not sell the unit, but is continuing to hold it. Perhaps they do intend to sue. I just don't know.

A bigger issue here is whether insurance companies will continue to want to insure units made by these small companies.
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Old 03-25-2005, 03:44 PM   #20
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....Customer: ...you have thought this out rather well!....better than I would have!....I'd be out for a hunk of someones posterior at this point.....A BIG CHUNK! Or at least having a "private contractor" ,reasonably priced , of course, with someones address.....and a gallon of regular unleaded....You are a better man than I-handling this situation.....I get all redneck just thinking about/looking at the pixs.....and you got to be out some major bucks on a loss like that....Insurance companies will squeeze every dime they can get and use any loophole possible to get out of paying for a loss-A friend is a loss adjuster and he squeeks when he walks......Best of Luck on this one.....OY!...geof kaye
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