Frame Welding
 

I welded the frame rails and will start on the lpg tank mounts.

Kenn,
I think them "Okie" airbags are going to make it ride a little rough.....lol. Frame extension looks really good. Looks like a good location for the LP tank. MMM

LPG tank
 

It took a few days and two trips to the steel store, but the LPG tank is now mounted. I will add a 1/4" x 3" rubber strip between the top of the tank and the cross members. I ended up with 17" of ground clearance. I will add a third cross member at the back and it will have the same 9" radius cut out to make room to fill the tank. Next up will be to make mounts for the leveling jacks. It feels good to be doing metal work and not truck repairs.

Greeting
 

I just joined. Your thread was the first to be seen and that is a very smart and secure placement of the propane tank. Is there a limit to the size of tank and must placards be displayed? I have a 9200 Int big pro sleeper that's in the process down in Idaho, (Im in Alaska) I hope to bring it up if not in Sept then in May next year. I was considering putting a (170 gal I think) on it. the tank was approx 28 x 94 in. Any comments, advice, or suggestions would be appreciated.

The only thing I've heard about the propane tank is you can't lock it. Most rv's don't have locking doors over the propane tank because of that rule. And I think you might have to put some label on the outside of the cover saying that's where the propane is. At least my two rv's had that door labeled as such.

Looks cool. Glad you're getting to work on it.

The tag on my tank shows it holds 49.8 gallons and it is 18"x54". My tank came from an auction at Country Coach, they made large diesel pushers in Oregon until they went out of business last year. I don't know how large the tanks are on trucks (pick ups)that are powered by propane. My old moterhome has a door that does not lock and it has a small propane warning label. My sisters moterhome has no lock or warning label. I plan to have a no lock door with a warning label. I also have been working on a trailer hitch that will add more protection for the tank if hit from the rear. My generator will run on propane along with the refrigerator, water heater, furnace and stove top. 170 gallons is a lot of propane. I will try to post pictures of the leveling jacks and the trailer hitch.

Looks great, keep them photos coming, thanks, G

Kenn,
I was wondering how you were going to work the hitch around the tank. Pictures are worth a thousand words! Looks great. I would never have thought to use trailer landing gears for leveling jacks ! Great idea. Those things are simple and bullet proof. Really looks good. MMM

Looks cool the way you've built the hitch structure to protect the tank. Hay, blizzardND used something kind of similar to that for his jacks. He built 2" receiver hitch tubing into the four corners of his truck. Then he made up some tongue jacks to insert into each one. Then he cranks away. I like the landing gear for your truck since I'm guessing it's a bit heavier than his. Did you look into getting some hydraulic rams and building your own system on the cheap? I know a automatic self leveling type system would be expensive. But, I'd think a guy could rig up something with parts from Northern Hydraulics or Tractor Supply and do it cheaper. It sure is nice to be able to just push buttons and let the rams go down.

Hyderbound- The only propane tank size limit I am aware of is for DOT cylinders (BBQ tanks) and on an RV you can have a max of 3 cylinders with a max of 35# capacity each. That would be for the removable cylinders. A permanently mounted ASME tank like you have there, which is used for engine fuel or for the coach has no size limit that I am aware of. As long as it is permanently attached to the chassis it is exempt from any HazMat placarding. The only thing you need is for the compartment door to be labeled. I am not sure if it is a law or not, but you certainly do not want the compartment to be locked. In case of a crash, emergency personnel need to be able to access the tank to shut it off, and also if you had a gas leak in the campground you would want anyone to be able to shut off the valve. Also, if you are using propane for engine fuel, there is a black reflective diamond decal that has to go on the rear of the vehicle. Just be sure the tank you are going to use is designed for use on a vehicle, and is not a stationary tank. They do make vehicle tanks that large, but they are not common. A vehicle tank has internal automatic shutoff valves inside every tank opening. For example if you are in crash and a valve is damaged or sheared off the internal shutoff keeps the propane in the tank. Stationary tanks do not have those. Also, vehicle tanks may have both vapor and liquid withdrawal valves, or plugged openings for both. Engine fuel would use the liquid valve, coach uses like the furnace would use vapor, and most generators would also use vapor although some larger units may use liquid, refer to your generator instructions for that. The opening would be labeled liquid or vapor, and stamped into the tank below the opening. Do not mix those up, sending liquid to a vapor appliance in dangerous.

Good luck with the project.

Dave

Are there more pictures posted somewhere else? or are they all on this thread? Thanks!

Bob the jacks are made by Ram and I paid $108 each for them at Century Wheel and Rim in Willsonville Oregon. They are rated to stabilize 12,000 and lift 10,000. They have a drop leg with return spring and 2 speeds. I think they are cheap copies of the Bulldog Jacks. I can upgrade to 20K if needed, but for the price I thought I would give them a try and so far they work fine. I did have to take them apart and rotate the drop leg 90 degrees so the pins are in line with the cranks. I have two in the front under the air cleaners and they lift the front (8,000lbs) just fine.

Hotrod in the picture of my tank, is that a plugged liquid opening in the bottom? If so can I make a small metal cover to keep rocks from hitting it? It is good to have someone that has LPG knowledge on this site.

90-GTSC 15 pictures so far on this thread and some of the truck in my album.

kenn-

The family business was propane back in the day. Literally the first thing I drove as a little kid was a Wheel Horse with a 20# bbq tank behind the seat that it ran on, so you get the idea...

Anyway, I have been looking at the close ups of your tank, and I am not really sure what it's original application was. Not stationary, it is some sort of a vehicle tank. Not motor fuel, there is no liquid withdrawal valve or opening. It may be an RV tank, but the relief valve position is a little odd for that. Possible for some sort of equipment like a steam jenny? Either way it looks to have all the proper guards and valves for your application. The pic you showed of the valve in the bottom is the pressure relief valve, not a liquid withdrawal opening. A liquid opening would be labeled "liquid" just like your service valve is labeled "vapor". Normally on a vehicle tank it would be positioned on the end with the other valves or on top of the tank. The pressure relief valve has to go into the vapor portion of the tank (top), so the opening must have an internal tube to the top of the tank. A little unusual setup to have the relief in the bottom like that, that's why I'm wondering if it is for some sort of equipment.

First, you cannot take out the relief valve, that is definitely the most important safety feature on tank. Second, if you are planning on enclosing the tank, you will need to pipe that relief valve to the outside of the compartment. There should be an internal thread on the valve (just inside the hex) where you can tread in an adapter for a remote exit, typically a stainless flex pipe (they make them for propane relief valves specifically) hooked to a pipe to get outside. If the tank gets hot (like in a fire, or if the tank is overfilled) that relief valve vents excess pressure to keep the tank from rupturing, and it would just make matters worse to vent inside a compartment. I'm thinking it is positioned where it is to make that remote plumbing easier on what ever they designed the particular tank for. Don't try to cover it, it needs to be clear if it needs to vent excess pressure. I see it is recessed into the tank, which is not typical, and that is done specifically to protect the relief valve from damage like you describe, which should be adequate. I suppose you could fashion some sort of guard in the flight path of a rock from the tire if it worries you, just be sure to leave the opening in the valve unrestricted if it needs to open. Remember that you cannot weld directly to the tank, only on the brackets, and that should only be done on a brand new tank that has not had fuel in it, or has had the valves removed and purged with nitrogen, for the obvious safety reasons.

Not sure how you are planning on designing the rear of your truck for access to the tank for filling, but you can use a remote fill valve setup to plumb the filler and bleeder to somewhere convenient like a small filler door. Any local propane company should have or can order the valves and hoses for that, also I found the valves and mounting bracket for that at Bontrager's for $20 (without the hoses) and they may have the full setup for cheap as well. Just thinking...

Nice job on the sturdy looking brackets and cradle for the tank.

Dave

Hot rod, thanks for the info on the valve. This is the first one I have seen with the pressure relife valve in the bottom. My tank was built by manchester and it was built as a motor home tank for Country Coach in Oregon. I looked on their web site and they had a drawing showing the valve on the bottom with an internal tube going to the top into the vapor space as you said. I might make some type of guard to protect from rocks and I will mount it without welding and make sure it can't prevent the flow. My tank will not be in a compartment so it should work as is. My plan is to fill it through a door above the trailer hitch. I built the last cross member with a cutout so the LPG person can reach the valve. When I built the hitch I considered your idea you gave to Ran D about the safety chain loops. I installed a chain that goes from the safety loop to the frame of the truck. If the trailer hitch failed the chains will have a chance of saving the hole mess.

Hot Rod I got all the parts painted and installed on the truck. I used an old air spring to make a rock guard and mounted it with a strap. After having the hitch and the tank back on the truck I think the tank can be filled from the back. I am now replacing air lines and hope to have the truck running soon. Thanks again for your advice. Kenn

Now that has to take the official award for the most creative use of a part that anyone else would have thrown away! I would have never figure out it was an airbag if you had not told me. Plenty of room for escaping gas (which will most likely never happen anyway), and very good that you did not weld directly to the tank. Probably overkill, but you really can't be too safe with the stuff. 99.99% of people that use propane will never have a hint of a problem, but that last .01 can be big. You've got great attention to detail on everything you build. I like the safety wired nuts on the brackets. Stuff most people would never think of, but when you get that rig done it will be bullet proof and trouble free. Nothing worse than spending your valuable time off on the road trying to fix all the little things you did not think of.

Good luck. Dave

air system
 

Well it took three weeks but I have the air system finished. I also replaced all of the water hoses and belts. As a bonus I had to put a new A/C compressor and dryer on. I still need to have it charged. I think I will get another trip permit and drive it on the road and make sure all is well. I will put temporary lights on the back for the test drive and I plan to tow the race trailer. I might install an electric brake controler before the test. If all checks out ok on the test drive, I will start prepping for painting the cab.

Wow, does that ever look nice. Great work. I love your hitch. My truck I finally found the fitting near the back that would be the air supply for a trailer and there was nothing hooked up to it. So I put a piece of air line tubing on it with a quick disconnect on the other end and I can then hook my air compressor hose to that. That way I can use the truck's air system to air up tires and such if needed. Works great so far. I normally leave the red knob out so there's no air in that line, just push it in to pressurize it.

I know the law would require you to have brakes on the trailer. I have a electronic brake controller for our enclosed trailer. But, the brakes on my truck are so good I keep my controller set pretty low so it hardly applies much trailer brake. If it was me and I just wanted to give it a bit of a test drive I wouldn't bother hooking up the brake controller. I would for sure make sure the break-away was hooked up tho.

Yesterday I towed the race trailer (6500lbs) with the Peterbilt and everything went fine. I changed the truck wiring to match up with an RV plug. I put in a new 7 conductor cable from the firewall of the truck to a junction box mounted inside the left side frame rail in an area just behind the cab that I should have access to when the motor home is done. I then ran a cable to another junction box at the rear of the truck and then to the trailer hitch mounted plug. I wired the 12v line (black) to a breaker that is hot when ever the truck batteries are on. Now if I stop at a rest stop and shut off the truck eng I can have the trailer interior lights work. I also installed the elect brake controler in the cab and it works.
I parked the truck and trailer on a level spot and was pleased to see it looks level. The truck ran great and was not challanged at all. Overkill for sure. I think when the motor home is done it may make the truck work a bit more. My overall plan has changed some. I think I will build the floor framing and the compartments before I paint the cab. I will then remove the hole thing for finish welding and painting. I will try to upload more pictures as the work goes on.

You do nice work. Had you thought about building the trailer hitch so it can slide up and down? Raising and lowering the trailer tongue. I presume with the spec racer you have don't have much ground clearance, hence its helpful to raise the front of the trailer for loading and unloading. I have the same problem with my Cup car. I've seen adjustable HD hitches that slide up and down with two large pins to secure it traveling. I've thought about putting air bags behind a hitch like that to raise and lower the tongue (after pulling the locking pins) when I need to load and unload the car. There is a picture of a hitch like that someone on this site posted (without the airbags for raising and lowering).

My dream is Pete 379 or 389. I wish I had the fab skills and creatively that the guys on this site have.

Keep the pictures coming.

#90-gtsc actually my car is a DSR (D sports racer) in SCCA. It is very low to the ground (1 3/4" at rest and about 1" at speed) but it is very easy to load in the trailer. I have 6' ramps that fold down from the rear door. I block the door 3 1/2" off the ground and raise the nose of the trailer just a few inches with the trailer jack. My trailer has a beaver tail built into the last 4'. I also take the nose off the car and that gives me plenty of room. At home I load the car without the trailer hooked to the truck or motor home. I have crewed on a GT1 car with a splitter that can not be removed and it was a job to get the trailer at the right height so all would clear. Today I helped a friend load his car (a DSR with about 1/2" ground clearence). We pick the car off the ground with what looks like hand trucks with hooks. One guy is front and one in the back and in we go. His car is very light light around 800#.

Welds!
 

Kenn:

Great welds; you are quite the craftsman!

Please keep the pictures coming so we can see your progress.

Thanks

instead of sliding the hitch up and down, what about over-riding the height control for the airbags on the rear axle, pumping them up to max?

(Or, it's a great reason to install a set of levelers (Like a Bigfoot or similar system), and extend the rears way out!)

you could make an airjack out of an airbag, just a simple base and frame to keep it in place, put it under the tongue of the trailer or the hitch and put the air to it

Interesting idea Shorts ... I was thinking the same thing! I was at Brainerd International Raceway this weekend with a friend running in the SCCA Trans-Am series. Simultaneously BIR had the season ending Muscle Car Shoot-Out running on the dragstrip. I saw a food vendor truck (looked like an old Penske box truck) with an airbag under the receiver. Looked like it could up and down. Should have taken a picture.

Next step
 

I have reached a point that the mechanical repairs and up-grades to the truck are done. I think. I am now doing the fabrication of the lower halve of the coach. Because of my 10' high shop door, I am building in two main parts. From the floor down and from the floor up. I am mounting the box frames on top of the truck frames with oak between them. I need to fine toon the wood with a power plane. I am using 4 ubolts on each side and they are 7/8" grade 8. I made the plates that go under the frame out of 2" chanel iron and then welded in 1 1/4" x 1/4" flat bar to beef them up. I bolted what I think are called fish plates to the truck frame and then welded stops to the box frames (4" chanel) to prevent the box from moving forward in a hard braking event. I made a water level so I could put pads on the floor and have the truck level in the shop. My floor drops more than 2" in 20'. The ubolts are called square but have a small radius so I welded 1/2" blocks to the frames and then ground a notch for the ubolts and they look like the bolts make better contact. I also welded 1/4" x 1 1/2" pieces between the flanges on the chanel to keep it from crushing. It feels good to be moving forward even if it is at a sloooooow pace. I will try to post pics.

more pics
 

A few more pictures.

Kenn, Glad to see you are making progress, looks like you are doing a great job, Really nice looking welds. Please keep up with the pictures for us in the design phase of our projects. Always looking for good ideas. Are you going to put a piece of rubber or something between your 'fishplate' on the frame, and the welded stop? Wondering if it was not isolated it might be one of those metal on metal squeeks that can drive a guy crazy going down the road.

Dave

rubber isolation
 

Dave I never thought abouts insolating the joint, but I will add a piece of rubber before final assembly. Thanks for the idea.

1 year and $28,000
 

Today is one year since I bought the truck and I have spent about $28,000. I can't belive how fast the year has gone, I can belive how fast the money goes. I feel good about the project and look forward to working on it every day. When I look back at what I have learned and done to the truck, I feel like I am just about on time and budget. I knew it was a big and expensive job. I spent several years thinking and planning and so far, so good. I knew my shop was small and I could not built anything bigger. The box length ended up being 230.5" (it will be 1" longer with the FRP siding). I am building the lower part of the floor framing and the compartments below. The shop feels like it is shrinking as I add more steel to the truck. After I finish the lower part I will lift it off the truck and move the truck outside and I will gain about 10' of room (length) in the shop. Right now it is about a 70' walk to get from the left tail light to the right tail light and I knew that would be the case. When I remove the lower frame I will finish welding it and then mount the compartment doors (roll up) then remove the doors and paint the finished lower halve. It is hard to get any good pictures in the shop but I will post what I have. I look forward to seeing it outside and taking better pictures. I have had a lot of people tell me that I should buy and not build, and I know if I got a job flipping burgers and spent the same amount of time, I would earn enough money to pay for a nice motor home, but I am a stubborn old guy that would rather weld than flip burgers. I have not for a moment wished I had taken a diffrent rout.

Harbor Freight to the rescue
 

In the past few days I have used my Harbor Freight porta-power and my chain-fall. If I was better at clamping I would not need them. While welding floor framing I managed to heat warp some 2 x 2 x 3/16 tubing (just 2 peices). I used the chain-fall to lift them back up. I will post a pic. I also found that the 2 x 5 x .120 tubing that the floor framing ties to on the outside had moved inward. I used the 10 ton porta-power to spread them so I could get the cross pieces in. I have spent lots of $$$ at HF over the years. I try to buy quality tools if I plan to use them a lot (welders and maching tools) and I get by with the low cost things that I need once in a while. When a HF tool fails, I try to remember how much I save when I bought it.
I have finished the basic framing for the floor and am starting on the lower compartments. Today I moved the truck outside for the first time since I began the framing. I got some better pictures which show how low the bodywork will be (15" off the ground). This will give me compartments that are 31" tall with a door height of 27". The body rear overhang will by 7' behind the rear axle. I wanted to see what it would look like so I cut up a piece of 1/8" stuff I got at Lowes and clamped to the truck. I also tried to decide how much clearence I need around the rear tires. Up next is to cut all of the upright 2 x 2 tubing for the compartments and then order the doors.

Thats a good idea clamping a panel on to give you a preview, I am still in the design phase of mine, and am trying to work out how much overhang vs ground clearance I will need. Don't want to drag tail down every driveway like my current class C does. and yet I need enough behind the wheels to get my Harley in. Where did you find to get the compartment doors from? I find plenty of places to get the standard light weight rv style door, but I would like the heavy duty style with a single handle/latch like a upper end class A's. Keep up the progress reports, gives us in the still in the armchair phase encouragement lol...

Dave

contrary to the popular practice of putting basement boxes behind the axle and close to the ground, I think that the rear boxes should be kept above or at least no lower than the bottom of the rear bumper to protect the sheelmetal from road rash, it's going to take a substantial amount of structure to protect sheetmetal from the weight and power that is readily available to cause damage inadvertantly.

Good point, If nothing else, at least sloping up from behind axle to slightly above bumber, definatly increases the angle of departure. Unfortuantly behind the wheels ends up being some of the most available area for storage, and to keep the weight off of the front axle. I plan on keeping the bottom of my coach work a bit higher than normal to start with. I seem to end up off road more than I would think. My current class C has fairly good ground clearance and yet still manages to drag its tail all to often. So many of the truck conversions I see have very low clearance and long overhangs, not sure how they do not drag coming out of the entrance ramps to parking lots.

Dave

doors
 

Dave, I plan to order my doors from Gortite roll up doors built by A & A Manufacturing. I want to use the roll up doors because when I worked as a Firefighter, our equipment had roll up doors. I know that they are strong and hold up well. I have never seen a motor home with them and don't mind doing things that others don't. I also like the way I can build the compartment frames with 2" tubing, strong and simple. For extra $$$$ Gortite will paint the doors to match the body color of the motorhome. I have been to some race tracks that pack the motor homes and trailers in so tight that it was hard to open even small hinged doors. The pics are of a local fire rescue rig and the doors are made by another co. You can check them out at www.gortitrdoors.com

Shorts, you are right about the overhang vs ground clearance. I have seen rigs that look like they would not make it into a lot of places without dragging. I plan to beef up the rear to handel any dragging and I will have 16" of clearance on level gorund. I used a model to help me see what the overall look would be (or close to it). I will post a pic of my model and of a rig for sale that I looked at. I would have made an offer if it had less overhange. Overhang causes clearance probles with the rear end swinging out so much. In the pic you can see that they are painting the back because he hit a pole.

I made a typo on the web site it should be Roll Up Doors ? Gortite Doors

Thanks Kenn, I had not thought about roll up doors. I was a volunteer firefighter for a long time, and we had them on some of our rigs. I have been planing a "industrial" look to my conversion anyway so those should fit right in. Thinking of having stainless skirting so i would not have to paint the doors. I have been unable to find a rig already made that will fit my needs so have made the decision to start from scratch. Trying to decide if i will have someone build it or if i will do it in house. (will probably end up with someone building the body and then finish it myself.) Want to stay with a classic style conventional (379 or W900) and have room for my bike. That and being a die hard manual transmission guy eliminates most of the "off the shelf" conversions out there.

Dave

Kenn ... I too had been thinking about roll-up doors. There is a fire station across from work and often there is a support truck (3/4 ton Chevy) with roll-up doors on the side. They look nice and are functional. But won't you lose some headroom in the compartment?

I had a friend who owned a series of Prevost motor coaches (Liberty Coach in North Chicago did the conversions) who was kind of enough to bring the Prevost when we went to the races in Indianapolis and Michigan. First class travel. The big buses have compartment doors which swing up and don't require much side room to open, but of course have a somewhat (as I recall) complicated mechanism to accomplish that. One of the things about the Prevost that I like was that when you locked the door to the coach, all the compartments locked too. When you unlocked the coach, all the compartments also unlocked. So you didn't have to run around the coach and manually locked the doors.

Can you give us an idea of the general cost of the Gortite doors? Of a typical lower compartment, what do you think the cost will be. Naturall alumiinum looks nice!

I agree with Mr. Dragonslayer ... a Peterbilt 379 is the ONLY way to go. If I'm going to spend this kind of money and this much time putting something together ... I want it to be the meanest, baddest looking rig in campground, in the race track paddock, or in the Wal-Mart parking lot.

Dick

while i too like those "bus" luggage compartment swing UP doors, they will NOT work if you have a slide out above them - you have to go to a side hinge, top hinge or roll-up door then.

Dick, I agree with you, the whole purpose for me to have a conversion is to stand out somewhat (ok a whole bunch) from the crowd. Figure nothing like a pete or kw with that great big hood and all trimmed out with chrome, stacks, air cleaners and lots of lights. figure people will love me or hate me..lol...loud bikes, loud trucks..

Dave