toad brakes?!
 

Ok, now I am circling the idea of a toad. However, I confess that I am mystified by the braking options. All the RVers are quite pleased with SMI Air force 1 brakes, but I don't understand how it works on the coach side.

I am certain that I am really missing something here, but why isn't there a toad controller that just uses a glad hand connection, rather than a bunch of elaborate plumbing on the motorhome?

RV Tow Bars - NSA RV Products

I use this and it works great? bought it on a rv site.

Sam

I like the looks of that. Thanks

what TOAD are you gonna pull?

do you already have your tow bar? I picked up a nice BlueOx (aluminum) Adventa tow bar for about 400 bucks (with the optional, but necessary, $450 base plates from a former owner).

heres a nice Falcon bar in Dallas for $500 as an example (just search for blueox, blue ox or towbar, tow bar).

Heres another one for $150

I (finally) bought a brake buddy VANTAGE (craigslist) for $250 (about 20% of the cost of a new unit)....it had the remote and the nice carrying bag.

there are some on EBAY - just to give you an idea of the pricing

heres one in Dallas - again just to give you an idea of pricing / availability etc.

The thing LOOKED like it hadn't been used at very much, all i had to add buy was a break away switch like this one (i pieced my own together for about 10 bucks. Trailer dot com has some even cheaper

I'd love to have the SMI system but then its only good for towing our (JEEP) toad by coach.

w/ the brake buddy (and my tow bar) i can confidently (and safely) tow the jeep behind anything w/ a receiver hitch (ala my F350 etc).

all this said - the ONLY reason I use the supplemental braking system on the toad is to avoid a liability issue (if my hitch should ever break loose or the grade 70 safety chains and clevis hooks should fail).

https://www.truckconversion.net/attac...22e363f77e.jpg

https://www.truckconversion.net/attac...cb00d3fcc8.jpg

I bought my brake buddy on a for sale section on an rv site. i got both the buddy and the brakeway for less than 200.00. it was a great deal. i got my blue ox tow bar off lsn.

Had to pay retail for the jeep base plate, and you tube on how to put it on, that was so easy. I have tow this with my chev truck and works great too. I need a base plate for my 55 now....lol

Like Don i dont need the braking system with this rig, but i sure did with my dutchman
I dont notice it behind me till i mess up and wish i could back up a few feet!

Sam

HA ! Ive lived your mistakes!

reality is i've only had to pull the toad (2 pins) to back up and disconnect maybe twice.

Once because mis-read a truck stop entrance and ended up in a gas station (I'm a slut for cheap fuel)... that was right next to the truckstop entrance.

that station was so small (and i was already committed) i was locked in as soon as i entered....no biggie, i took on fuel that was much cheaper than the truck stop....disconnected the toad/jeep (while fueling the 1st tank), put the wife in the jeep and had her wait for me at the station exit.....all this allowed me to back up & reposition / fill the other side tank and then make my exit.

the second time i missed the entrance for a campground....and rather drive a few miles (looking for a turn around or loop), i found a place i could back the coach in & turn around....again, pull 2 pins a cable & 2 chain hooks and the wife is in the jeep driving it to the campground.

it takes me more time to unlock and start the jeep than it does to connect/disconnect the jeep from the coach.

The issue of not being able to back up and fix a turn has been a concern of mine. I confess that I have already shorted two turns that required a little back up adjustment.

All that aside, what I am really concerned about is all the extra equipment that must be installed in the toad for some of the braking systems. The simplicity of the system Samcrimm recommended might be the ticket for me. I too believe it is more of a compliance/liability issue than an actual braking issue, so I want to keep alterations to the toad to a minimum.

I want to make a toad of my F350, but I'm having difficulty locating a baseplate for it, since it is so old. We are also considering an older suburban as a toad candidate. I guess it is safe to say that the vehicle is up in the air, I just know it has to seat six with some room for gear.

I was trying to gather a better understanding of how the various toad braking systems work. I like the surge hitch/cable system for its simplicity. The Air force one looks slick, but i don't want to install all that gear in the toad, to still just have it pull the brake pedal.

I guess I was overthinking it, figuring there would be something more elegant that would directly interface with he toad's braking system and be actuated by the TC's air braking or electric braking system with no alterations to the TC.

I was pleased how easy it was to drill two little holes in the floor board, and i think i have a clean neat front set up. F350, better check how you can tow that 4 down, 2 down or tow it with out removing the drive shaft. i bought a tow dolly first then read the owners manual and learned i could not tow it 2 down.... i pulled the drive shaft a couple of times and the last one was in the rain....
I was just not want to spend 3000 to tow. then i started learning and put together the set up i have now. i did this set up for less than 900.00 the base plate was the most, had to buy new. here are day time pixs of my set up, hoping you get the set up that works the best for you. The more info you have the better you are in making the right move.
Sam

How does that ReadyBrake system work when you're coasting down a long grade...looks to me like the ReadyBrake will apply the brakes when the vehicle coasts forward against the hitch?
How does the ready brake apply the brakes proportionally (hard) in an panic or hard stop? It seem the ready brake system only has one breaking level.

There are a few alternative more permanent mount solutions (some air, some electric):

RoadMaster BrakeMaster and Invisibrake
BrakeBuddy Stealth

as much as i wanted an AIR over Air braking system for our TOAD, most of them limit you to the vehicle that its (permanently) installed in & then it can only be towed by the coach.

With a more portable system (ala BrakeBuddy Vantage / Vantage Select or Blue OX Patriot you have the advantage of being able to use it in any TOAD or tow your TOAD with any other (non airbrake) vehicle that has a receiver hitch (ala my f350 etc).

It the lever thru the cable pulls the brake pedal, so a slight push applies a light braking, so the harder the toad goes against hitch the harder it pulls brake.
The lever is not all on when pressure is applied.
Did that help?
Sam


QUOTE=bushpilot;45074]How does that ReadyBrake system work when you're coasting down a long grade...looks to me like the ReadyBrake will apply the brakes when the vehicle coasts forward against the hitch?
How does the ready brake apply the brakes proportionally (hard) in an panic or hard stop? It seem the ready brake system only has one breaking level.

There are a few alternative more permanent mount solutions (some air, some electric):

RoadMaster BrakeMaster and Invisibrake
BrakeBuddy Stealth

as much as i wanted an AIR over Air braking system for our TOAD, most of them limit you to the vehicle that its (permanently) installed in & then it can only be towed by the coach.

With a more portable system (ala BrakeBuddy Vantage / Vantage Select or Blue OX Patriot you have the advantage of being able to use it in any TOAD or tow your TOAD with any other (non airbrake) vehicle that has a receiver hitch (ala my f350 etc).[/QUOTE]

I understand how it works, yes. My point is there must be limited travel forward (and backwards) on the hitch and the readybrake mechanism.

how much can the cable be pulled? an inch?

what happens on coasting down a hill (where i don't apply my coach brakes) but the TOAD "catches" up to the coach (and inch or two) against the hitch "slack"?

I wonder, down a long grade (christansburg va / i81 comes to mind) the toad brakes will be unnecessarily applied (even when my coach brakes are not).

I'm hoping that the cable could be adjusted to tolerate a certain amount of travel before activating the toad brakes. I guess you would sacrifice some low speed braking, but it could mitigate the down hill issue somewhat, and the brakes would still be there when you really needed them.

let me say I'm NOT against the ReadyBrake, but i think its probably worth mentioning that its not a progressive brake system....its nothing more than a SURGE brake.

the problem i see w/ the ReadyBrake - is that it is NOT a brake away braking system.

we really don't need brakes in a toad w/ our coaches...ive pulled all over the place (7% grades) w/out any supplemental (toad) braking and never had a problem.

what I'm MOST concerned with is the liability (and death) associated w/ the toad breaking away, and the ready brake does nothing to resolve that concern.

This video (below) shows theres only about 3/4 of an inch of movement between activation and non-activation, so theres only gonna be 3/4 to 1/2 an inch of brake pedal movement.

Ive never measured how much my brake pedal moves when i apply my brakes while driving (in my toad) but 1/2 - 3/4 of an inch isn't much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6sEJsrCh28

i know its hard to interpret from a drawling but there can't be much slack in that cable.

https://www.truckconversion.net/attac...a61db53c7d.gif

Just learned that although my F350 will tow four down with no driveline disconnect, it has a towing speed restriction of 55mph!

They offer a breakaway for that installation that pulls and holds the brake cable with a separate cable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6sEJsrCh28

I think there is some travel to work with. Bear in mind, I don't have one yet. I'm just doing the diligence.

i think the Jeep Wrangler has a similar restriction....i don't know why (other than liability) they even bother to say such a thing.

I drive our Jeep (and f350 along w/ all the other vehicles) over that limit ALL the time. Ive had NO issue exceeding the speed limit :cool: while towing our Jeep.

Technically speaking all the coach and truck tire manufactures say their tires are not rated for speeds over 70mph......lawyers :rolleyes:

which requires additional installation (hole in the firewall) and additional hardware.

https://www.truckconversion.net/attac...448b0b3a66.gif

the nice thing about the BrakeBuddy Vantage & Roadmaster Patriot systems is that the brake away is activated by a switch (absence of the switch cause an electrical closed circuit) which activates the Brake system inside the toad.


the instructional video says no more than 2 inches of slack in the cable...but if you have that much slack in the cable and the activation occurs w/in 3/4 of an inch i don't see how your gonna get activation of the cable. Maybe I'm being too logical - 2 inches of slack and 3/4 of an inch activation means theres still at least 1 1/4 inches of slack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgREsfODSn4

When i towed behind the dutchman 31p, i could feel the toad when i stopped. i live on a mountain road and normally the only time i felt the jeep liberty was when i touched the brakes. so if the toad pushed against the brake system it was not noticeable. i have panic stopped and the toad stopped great, no push at all. i adjusted the cable where it almost activate the brakes, and it was tighter than 2".

It took several tries to adjust the cable just right on the dutchman, the renagade i made it loose. I have the breakway hooked up for the safety factor. I have used this set up for almost 3 years and trust it.

Oh an when i tow the toad with my chev. I really know it and it a good thing it has the brake system.

I installed the Roadmaster Brakemaster for both the Wrangler and 2010 Silverado. Why complicate the system, I got air brakes on truck so why not have an air actuator for the toad brakes. No electrical charge line, just basic wiring and simple in and out for the cylinder.

not a chevy/gmc/dodge vs ford issue bashing comment -

when i tow the JK wrangler (4200 lbs) behind our f350 it tows lighter than our 18 foot, 2 axle, (2200 lb) open utility/car trailer.

On my Ford Edge awd that I tow four down, Ford says 65 max and supposed to run the engine every 4 hours. Well, I certainly go faster than 65 and no problems (shit, now I just jinxed myself :eek: ). I do run the engine first thing in the morning before leaving for about 5-10 minutes, and when I stop and it's convenient, sometimes around the 4 hour mark. Plus run it at end of the day, even if no disconnect. I figure that running through R-N-D and then back to N helps circulate the fluid. Have done 800+ miles in a day.

In your case, the only thing you have moving around is the transfer case (assume your F-350 is 4x4?), which tend to be self-lubricating. Which is why most 4x4 can be towed four down easily. Manual trans are dependent on trans design. Generally in neutral the output shaft does not turn the countershaft, which does the lube slinging. The input shaft does turn the countershaft, so it lubes when engine is running. Some trans will sling enough lube with the output shaft turning and not the input shaft, such as when towing. The differentials and driveshaft don't have issues, they lube themselves. It is good to unlock front hubs if you can, no need to turn the extra front driveshaft and axle parts.

Oh yeah, I use a jump starter pack to hook up the brake system, rather than the car's battery.

Hi Guys, its Speeno the newbie. Its obvious that a trailer would solve all these issues, so why is a toad so much more desirable? This is for my benefit not argueing against toads.

a trailer has its own set of problems some of which include:

• most campground don't have slots large enough to accommodate a coach, trailer & car
• storage issues / cost (at home & while camping) most campground DON'T have storage.
• less maneuverability / added length
• additional weight (lower mpg / added fuel cost).
• connect, disconnect, loading & unloading time

It's gonna take a pretty big / heavy trailer to haul an 8k lb f350.

Personally i don't see a TOAD (assuming its a good one) as a problem, especially with our type of coaches, the supplemental brakes aren't (technically) required (since its not a trailer and were it not a liability issue i wouldn't even bother with 'em

^this

My utility trailer is only rated for 10k lbs. The trailer weighs 2500lbs, so I can't haul my trucks until I upgrade to a 12 or 14k trailer. Still, I can only take the trailer to certain sites, where I know there will be room.

Petrel -

that was my problem too, 7k utility / car trailer w/ a trailer weight of 1.8k

I would add to the LIST of considerations of a trailer:

• TRAILER tires (notorious for blow outs and tearing stuff up)

OK, thanks for the info.

Time to throw a wrench in here, i want to carry more stuff with me, like we are staying warm in florida and by lake okeechobee. my flat bottom boat and motor, the harley, some not many tools, all this fishing a freezer would be nice. I am sure i missed something. i thought i would tow my 8' trailer behind toad with my stuff... cant do that in fla. You can in tenn and ga. And then you limited to where you can tow all that, no more cheap diesel, only truck stops..

Sam

visions of this -

https://www.truckconversion.net/attac...9cebd3728e.jpg

https://www.truckconversion.net/attac...bd62ef6d37.png

you need something like this -

https://www.truckconversion.net/attac...870fbda2ef.png

https://www.truckconversion.net/attac...bfadc4b1ea.png

Don't forget the wood shed for campfires.

Love the red ford, going to trade my liberty in for one of them! The rack is just right for the boat!

Thanks don.....lol

If maneuvering and campground space weren't an issue, I'd have a 26' stacker with my truck snug inside, the boat on the lift, and the nose area crammed with stuff I don't need;)

i spotted the red ford in september 2008 (after hurricane Ike wacked us good)....
i was south bound outta dallas (on my way back from a houston/dallas day trip), when i spotted this guy (going south, when everyone else was going north).

There were NO generators to be had in houston so i ran up to fort worth at 3am one morning to a northern tool store and grabbed a 10kw "portable" (my ass).

that generator, all 620cc V-Twin of it, sustained us for part of the 13.5 days we were w/out power!

John (aka THUNDERUSONE) on this forum tows double a fair amount.

He's in Tennessee and frequents florida. I don't think he's been bothered much (would have said never but he just got stopped over xmas).

https://www.truckconversion.net/attac...7050f1e197.png

https://www.truckconversion.net/attac...93b287e35c.png

https://www.truckconversion.net/attac...c954bcb2db.png

Gonna derail my own thread here and really show my noob-ness: How the heck do you navigate secondary roads with a boat hitched up like that?! Can you really turn right from a two way two lane to a two way two lane?

I had grand plans to tow my boat with my TC until I went on a test ride with a 31' stacker in tow. That thing really could not turn in the scenario above unless the other lane was clear or the folks at the light or stop sign backed up to make room.

What is the trick to that? My boat/trailer is 41' from tongue to lower unit, with the trailer axles waaay back like thunderous. I'd love to use the TC to tow it, but I haven't figured out how to do it. Maybe I need to go to CDL School.

John should be along momentarily to reply ;)
and as i recall he may have owned a stacker at one point or another.

Double towing is no problem and my Motorhome is 47' long. Got pulled over in Ft Myers for doubling by a state trooper. He wrote the ticket out wrong with the wrong fine and told me it was a moving violation. Drove 15 miles down the road and hooked back up. We left after new years and drove back and passed 20 state troopers in every possible situation and never got a second look. Called Florida to pay the fine and it was only a $100.00 & it was not a moving violation (does not effect insurance ). I also drove all through KY and TN on that same trip....no issues. As for pulling the boat, it's not for everyone. You have to plan ahead. Be prepared to use your horn and lights to clear a path when turning. :D

The boat is way more complicated than a stacker due to axle placement.

Ok, that is what I figured. So my concerns are not unwarranted.

Do you have someone with a light truck standing by to launch for you, or do you use a lift to put the boat in the water?

hell i do that when i drive my Jeep Wrangler :)