I've been reading the discussions here and in other locations for several months now. When I first started thinking in terms of having a large RV, it was in terms of like a Winnebago, well it didn't take long for me to get turned off my the whole diesel pusher motorhome idea. Then I spent a little while checking out 5th wheels and tow vehicles, that too went by the side of the road. Ultimately I started hearing about Class 8 'conversions'. Right away I could see where the answer to most of my objections to diesel pushers and 5th wheels could potentionally be answered by a Class 8 conversion. I still think a Class 8 is the most workable idea -BUT- in reading the discussions on TruckConversion.net I have as many questions as answers. Recently I had been investigating Powerhouse as I had inquired of them and they indicated that having one build the way I think I want is not a problem for them. Then today I found a discussion about Powerhouse, general consesus was not the best. While thinking in terms of a Class 8 I was also troubled by what I perceive as a loss of useable vehicle length due to the long node of a conventional Class 8 truck. Once again I found where someone had specifically spoken very negatively on the idea of a COE for the basis of a conversion. I thought I'd found a nice compromise a Class 8 toter and a 5th wheel mated together and someone shot that idea down 'bad turning radius' https://www.cowboycadillac.com/BENZHAULER6.pdf
Between companies with an "our way or the highway" attitude [and my impression has been there are many] and reading the discussions here and elsewhere I'm about ready to throw in the towel and buy the guy down the street's 1999 Ultimate Advantage and call it a day. Is the only way to get one of these conversions the way you want it to go and be your own project manager, go buy a chassis, take it to whoever is certified to stretch them, get it stretched and go buy a welder and a load of tube steel and hir e a certified welder, etc. etc. etc.
OK I'm done whinning now, give it to me straight.

....that is exactly what I did....and now I got exactly what I WANT at the PRICE I wanted to pay.....No more and No less.....I have standing orders for 3 more as soon as I get my superinsulated house done in Fairfax Ohio and get the garage built to start building these things and some other ideas I have borrowed along the way- like a boat over P/U trailer- a P/U with a boat on top and pulling a trailer also- some Disabled Persons specialized equipment so other gimps in the area can enjoy the things I do....geofkaye

Where are some pictures of what you built?

I think you might have to keep in mind that opinions are like a**holes...everyones got one. Don't get me wrong I'm sure one of those long toters would have some difficulty turning round but a short one with a couple of seats and maybe an overhead bunk (i'm assuming you want the 5th wheel to be the living area) would probably get into at least as many places as you could take a rigid truck of the same length as the 5th wheel.

I can't speak for american trucks but I'm led to believe that european CoE trucks ride comfortably enough. Why not find one that you can get a ride in and see if they really are as bad as the stories make out.

Why not do it as the project manager. I'm sure you have some skills which you could use in the construction. Maybe get the guy from the welding shop down the road to do some work on it in his spare time. It wont be done quickly but it'll be done the way you want.

If all else fails go buy the DP. Get one a couple of years old and hope the other guy got some of the bugs worked out. Of course if the chassis was overloaded out of the factory then theres nothing you can do. Add all the roll bars ect you want. If it was designed bad its going to stay bad. Thats what reasearch is for!

Just my 0.02p!

Mike

https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...on_biggrin.gif Well I got to throw in my $.04 Cents of Lower Rear Opinion in here also.

I am not Real Smart to start with, Live in the Woods, Don't always do the right things, Have made and still am way to many mistakes, Not very well Educated and Thickheaded.

There are a lot of Companys and People out there that: https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...n_confused.gif Build, Modify, Stretch, Shortin, Add a Rear axle, Remove a Rear axle, Airride, No Airride, Airride on just one side, Auto Tranny, Manuel Tranny, Insulate, Don't Insulate, Use this, Use that, Front axle setback, No axle setback, Volvo vs Studabaker, Cat vs Cummins, Cabover vs Conventional, This is a Forum, And I don't know for sure BUT THE WORDS, "FORUM" & "OPINION" SOMEWHERE HAVE TO BE RELATED. In Europe, Cabover's Outnumber Conventional Cabs Three to One. Has anybody Drivin, Ridden In, Or even seen these trucks in person and not a Picture, But Dumb Fat & Happy Me ???? Yeah its a little scarey driven on the wrong side for the first couple miles. A good place to see Kick-Ass Cabovers is on some of the Yourapeein Truck Sites. And Volvo has a Nice Vidieo on there Global site that is nuthin butt COE's. The Cabover Stigma is outdated. The only two drawbacks IMO is Motor access and Connection/Seal/Mating of the Coach. Some of them have a flat floor no dogbox. And you do get better Forward Vision, Turning Radius, Nosebleeds, First one at the accident your involved in. Oh yeah it may be difficult for the Wasitline & Vertical Challenged to enter and exit from the cab doors, But you can go in & out the Coach sidedoor. https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...on_biggrin.gif https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Hey marc, thanks for chipping in to the fray. The issue of mating the box to the back end of a COE is something I've been trying to find information about. The Argosy which I've ridden in as a tracto truck not a MH has the tilt over cab for engine access and so far I haven't seen anything that looks like a solution to this question although I'd sure like to know how the Euros do it, lot of Mercedes Benz COE motorhomes makes me thing they do it somehow.

https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...on_biggrin.gif Somewhere,Someone is doin Some. There is a lot of stuff out there. I will take a look in some of the stuff I have to see if there is any
info on a COE. What kind of power train and stuff you want in the coach???

If by what kind of power train you mean engine and transmission, I'm somewhat of a neophyte. Just from poking around and listening hear and there, it seems like a Cat engine with an automated mechanical transmission [rather then a torque converter auto]. Don't know enough about rear ends or geaaring to say anything even halfwitted. I'd actually go for a manual transmission if push comes to shove.

https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif By powertrain I do mean the following: Engine: Make Model OR Type, H.P., Transmission, Tandem Or Single Axle, Rear
Ratio. What exactly are you going to do with the Conversion?? Is it A Toter?? Or Coach?? What are you going to tow?? How much weight?? After doing some quick searchs in my files I think what came up will work. What Country or State Are you in?? Do you have large truck driving experience?? Correct me if I am wrong please,I think I read that you are new to this??
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Wow this is such a long story. I first started thinking about going into full time RV'ing a few months ago. I'm done working for a living and since I'd done nothing but work like a dog for 30 years 2&3 jobs at a times and usually with some sort of gig on the side like buying, fixing and renting fleabag houses, I ws good to go for a really nice RV and I started looking. Well the problem is I didn't like what I found in "off the shelf" models. The 500k diesel pushers are I think for people who are too easily parted with their money. To shorten this I eventually came to the conclusion that something like a Class 8 based motorhome or a Class 8 hauler pulling a 5th wheel of my dreams was the way to go. In answer to your question, I drove bottom dumps about a million [30] years ago, does that count as experience driving large truck? I live in California for now. I have about 6 more months of business to clear up and bring to a close. I figure to buy an RV probably a BlueBird Wanderlodge maybe 10-15 years old and take off and tour around the country visiting manufactirers like United and Renegade and as many others as possible. I'm a great believer in first impressions and those can only be gained in person. Hopefully this will lead me to a builder who I get a good vibe for and who I can find a lot of praise for from previous customers on forums like this. And in the meantime, I'm lurking around, picking peoples brains and readin until I am blurry eyed. As to specifics in powertain etc. I don't have enough experience to make a decision; what I read leads me to believe I could do worse then a good sized cat engine with an automatically shifted manual transmission. As for a chassis, the Argosy looks good but once again, I'm basing that on no practical experience, just reading and listening. I took your advice on European sites and you were right I did find some nice looking [to me] examples of COE coaches. https://www.actionmobil.com/

Chewvy57PkUp:.....toterman had them up and now they are gone.....I don't know enough to do a picture thing....so I really don't know what to tell you.....If you are ever unlucky enough to be in Cincishitty Ohio give me a call at 1-888-513-5293-VM System-it follows me around.....I'll call you back asap......geofkaye-sorry to hear you live in Kali.....hope things get better........

https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...on_biggrin.gif Hey 57p-up, I knew it was here in my paper files,And I remembered the truck it's COE Peterbilt that was made for 3-5 years. Access to the motor and needed components for service is done in the front it all opens up, Its also more aerodynamic then a reguler COE. I don't remember if the floor was flat in this model. I also found a good seal and design for between the cab and coach. Get your floorplan together for the build. I found two (2) of these trucks. One of them is outstanding inside & out.

If you have any pics etc email em to my handle at yahoo dot com

Who said in europe its 3 to 1 ratio COE to conventional?
I just came back from a 2 week trip back to Austria (17 degrees and lots of snow) and I saw NOT A SINGLE conventional, COE only. Its amamzing. Unless you talk about small class 5 or 6 maybe.

Had I more time and known of "action mobile" before, I might have visited them just for fun.

Well, another reason to go back home again..

Hmmm, how do I Goodle 'motorhomes' only in Australia and find anything other then what I'd call a camper van? As far as I can find the Aussies think a motorhome is a lot different then what I'm talking about, certainly nothing in the Class 8 league. The isue of the junction COE cab to coach body is what I'm trying to resolve currently. I'd like to see how they are doing it and keeping it weather proof while still allowing the cab to tilt out.

https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...icon_frown.gif

I Said 3 to 1 Ratio, I am nobody just Poor,Dumb,Fat&Happy. Dumber then most,Live in the Boonies on the side of a hill overlooking a swamp infested with Snakes & Aligators, Quit School in the Second Grade, Was 8 before I was 7, Never left the County I was born in, Married my first Pig who is also my 1st Cousin's Sister, Never Worked a day in my life.
BUT I CAN LIFT VERY VERY HEAVY THINGS, A DAMN GOOD SHOT, AND LIKE TO BLOW SHI* UP. https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...on_biggrin.gif https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo.../icon_razz.gif https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...icon_smile.gif https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...on_biggrin.gif


************The Geoography Channel I Watch!!!! EUROPE IS A LOT MORE THEN JUST AUSTRIA. https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...n_confused.gif https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...on_biggrin.gif

https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...icon_smile.gif https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...on_biggrin.gif ; https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...on_biggrin.gif

One more thing. "WHAT THE HELL IS A CONVENTIONAL CABOVER" Just asking please don't forget. I am very Dumb.

I think everybody is trying to be nice. I have heard them whisper the word: "STUPID" a couple three times.

https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...n_confused.gif

Where was the phrase CONVENTIONAL CABOVER used? I can only find it in your last message. A few messages back Wallik says "conventional, COE only" but there is a comma between conventional and COE which changes the meaning.

https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...n_confused.gif https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...on_biggrin.gif https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo.../icon_wink.gif

Not in my rules, Comma or not!! It is a Conventional Cab or Cabover Engine Cab. It cannot be both I think what was written
is called a Oxy Moron. I am pretty stupid so it may be the wrong word and also spelled wrong. https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...on_biggrin.gif

I think Wallik meant that he saw NO Conventionals, ONLY COE's.
So settle down, unlock and unload the artillery, have a cool one, and mellow out. There, isn't that better?
I know I'm feeling MUCH better now!
Gary

PS An oxymoron describes contradictory terms, like "military intelligence" or "jumbo shrimp".

https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...n_confused.gif
Thank Goodness My Buddy Gary showed up to fix all this, Along with the lithium & Little 230v 3phase. So Mr.W means no
Nose stickin out Just flat chested Trucks, Right?

MARK!

What's your address? I'm going to send you a copy of a 9th grade composition textbook. He didn't put the words together 'conventional' and 'COE' to describe a type of truck. That's what the COMMA <,> tells you if you'd paid attention to those pesky little puncuation marks people sprinkle into their writing that your poor english teacher tried to stuff into your head. It is not an example of an oxymoron, <comma> which is one word not two. The only possible moronic aspect to this discussion is not an oxy. Take that damm patch off your eye, it's confusing you. So one more time just for clarity, the man was not saying there is such a thing as a "conventional cabover engine" stype of truck. Although you know now that I stop and think about it, isn't there more then one kind of COE? there is the type where the cab tilts forward for engine access. Aren't there some where the entire cab slides forward on rails and also what about the kind of truck where there is a cowling inside the drivers cab that is removed for access? Couldn't it be argued that the tilt out would be a conventional COE and the others variations?
Sorry everyone, I just can't help myself, when I was a kid I use to play with matches and flamable liquids. Now I just stir 'it' when ever I get a good opening https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo.../icon_razz.gif

.....something is pullin' on something here and I think it is MARC.....change eyes with the patch and get back to normal or where ever you are at currently.....though you are a good match with '57 PkUp ;&gthttps://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo.../icon_wink.gif.....BTW you all can't fool me I have those letters behind my name.......geofkaye-EeD.BS.CS.DD.

I hate to correct you but it can be both!! Back in 1983 or so I knew a guy that was hauling containers with his "Peterliner".
It was a Cabover Peterbilt with a Conventional Freightliner hood sticking out front. Wildest thing I ever saw in a truck......

Wick

Thanks Gary and Chevy57. Yea, there is a meaning to (,) and (.), sometimes even to ";" and (!)

so to make it clear for Marc:
I did not see a single conventional cab.
I saw COE only.

And I am sorry I did not say "on my trip to Europe" but I confined it to Austria.

Although I am sure that even National Geographie Channel might have mentioned one of the problems is Austria is the "pass-through traffic".

Based on its location on Europe (most eastern country of the former "Western Europe" before Europe opened to "Eastern Europe", EU, Schengener Staaten...) and its size (a whoping 60 miles N-S direction in the western part and maybe 200 miles in the eastern part) trucks from Northern/Western Europe (D,S,NL,F) going to Southern Europe (I,SLO,CH) passing through. As well as all the traffic going to the former East Block (CS, SK, H, YU, HR,PL) passing through Austria E-W direction.

So, not to give geographie lessons, (sorry everybody) but to explain that there are more non-austrian Trucks on the road then trucks from Austria and therefore I took it on me to assume the vehicle pattern I saw on the Freeways there (A1,A2) would be representative for all of Europe.

Happy, Marc?

Although you scared me there when you said in your first post:

Because in Europe traffic is on the same side of the road as here!

But then I just though it could be that "one-eye-only" situation or did you mean Great Britain? The Britsh are part of EU, but they dont consider themselves as Europe, but still old "British Islands" and are (besides Malta I think) the ONLY country in Europe with traffic on the left. I think we have one member from GB on here, I hope I am right.

Well, enough typing for 1 day. Originally I tried to ignore that mumbling rumbling but as there were too many posts regarding mine I had to chime in again.

Getting a little back on topic here; browsing around on the dub-dub-dub I've found quite a few examples of really good looking [to me] COE motorhomes. The thing of it is that in many cases I cannot tell be looking at the pictures how the cabs can tilt forward due to them having an overhang which appears to be part of the coach work. Does anyone know are they somehow hinged in a manner that when tilted forward the upper most rear of the cab does not raise up higher then the roof, where it seems like it would hit the overhang?

I would say that, when an overhang is built over the cab of a COE, the most common thought would be,"OOOOPS!!". Either that or the genius in question has a real brainstorm on how to do the most basic (like say, oil & filter changes) maintenance items, like cutting a huge gaping hole in the doghouse (engine cover for you non-trucker types out there). Just remember, "original ideas" don't always mean "smart ideas". But I'm sure most of us knew that already....
Gary

I can't believe there are that many 'oops' built into that many motorhomes. I think I'm missing something. Hope somoene reads this and knows.

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Mr. Wallik,

In reference to my prior postings regarding COE (Cab Over Engine)and Conventional Body styles. Every word that was typed and posted by myself in the last week or so. #1)"WAS MY WARPED SENSE OF HUMOR" #2)"NONE OF IT WAS MEANT TO DEGRADE, HURT, INSULT OR TO BE TAKEN IN ANY WAY BUT IN GOOD OLD AMERICAN BALL BREAKING" #3)"I HAD NO IDEA THAT YOU ARE FROM AUSTRIA AND DID NOT UNDERSTAND SUCH BEHAVIOR OF THE WAY 75% OF RED BLOODED AMERICAN MEN ACT" #4)"AS FOR THE OTHER 25% OF THE AMERICAN MEN, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY ACT OR BEHAVE LIKE LIVING THE LIFESTYLE OF POCKET PROTECTORS, WINGTIP SHOES OR EVER HAVING TO ANSWER TO THE MAN OR PUNCHED A TIME CLOCK, OR FOR THAT FACT EVEN HAVING A REAL JOB" #5)"I AM A 51, BORN & RASIED AMERICAN AND BEEN VERY LUCKY TO HAVE TRAVELED TO EVERY PART OF THE U.S.A." #6)"THE ONLY THINGS I AM SERIOUS ABOUT AT ALL ARE: "PROTECTION OF MY FAMILY & PROPERTY", "PERSONEL & NATIONAL AMERICAN TRADGEIES","HAVING ENOUGH COFFEE & TOBACCO PRODUCTS DUE TO LIVING 1/2 HOUR FROM THE NEAREST STORE", "HAVING AS MUCH FUN IN LIFE AS POSSIBLE","HAVING 4 HOURS 3X A WEEK TO BE WITH 3 DIFFERANT WOMEN" "GETTING SHOT IN THE BACK BY HER HUSBAND" And thats about it. I am sorry if you were upset or affected in anyway by my comments. In closing, I am going to take some courses at the State Colleage to get a much better understanding of the Yourapeein Culture.

Regards, Marc

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DAMN!!!

I can't even get a thank-you over here!!!

Gary,

It looks like and from the best I can gather from thier website that the Argosy has a flip up hood under the windshield that allows the driver to access all the things necessary on a daily basis. Check oil, filters, electrical buses, etc. The only need to flip the cab would be for overhauls and rebuilds.

Bill [from] Elburn https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...icon_smile.gif THANK YOU I'm an idiot, I even have the Argosy brochure and never noticed the picture in it showing the service panel. This is going to make doing what I want to try a lot easier I'm sure. So cool, now I can start looking for a late used Argosy for real. I wonder if Freightliner has used Argosys in their Select Used truck offerings.

The access panel does allow one to CHECK stuff, but to do actual maintenance, like changing oil and filters and other PM stuff, the cab's gotta tilt, and in the normal RV situation that includes the necessary level of clutter that a family situation seems to dictate, that can be a real PITA. BUT, if you really want one that bad.....

https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...on_biggrin.gif I agree with Gary. That is just a access panel for checking Oil,Radiator,Blue-Juice and maybe some minor adjustments. The way that truck drives and rides is fantastic. It is well engineered,thought-out and built tough. The only problem is
that model Argosy is very recent and finding one used could be a little tough. A new one with the huge 110" Hi-top and all
the goodies is around 125K. I also feel you would have a rough time getting them to give you 25'+ of Double Frame behind the Cab. Not to mention it being a single axle. You guys should have pictures I sent each of you of COE trucks with add-ons. Really though on any COE all the fluids can be checked without tilting the cab, And in all seriousness how many time is the cab going to go tilt anyway. Not
much at all using the truck as a Conversion. That is unless you just wanna take it out and play with it, But then again there are plenty of other things that are a whole lot more fun to play with that I can think of. https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...n_confused.gif https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo...n_rolleyes.gif https://www.truckhome.com/infopop/emo.../icon_razz.gif

Marc - Would you elaborate on the issue of how much frame rail "they" will give you? Are you talking about Freightliner if you buy a new one from them or are you talking about the practical limitation of stretching an existing frame?

Gary, you make a valid point in average situations as you mention with a family; I'm single and a neat freak. I'm also very careful about what loose items I allow in a vehicle to be loose and floating around. The issue of flying missles in an emergency situation is not one that I take likely. I don't eat or drink in a vehicle and I don't talk on a cell phone. Plus I'm not sire which cab configuration I'd elect to have as I don't have my heart set on any specific style. A day cab style might make more sense, I don't know yet. The fact that I have yet to even find a builder who had indicated an interested in tackling a COE build and who can demonstrate any experience doing so may well preclude a COE altogether. Just don't know yet.

But in reality how much family stuff is going to be in the cab? In our 780 all we had up there was the electronics and they were all installed very securely. We also had a bunch of folders (reg, insurance, etc) but they were in the upper storage cabinet. IMHO there would not be much, if anything, to secure prior to tilting the cab forward. I don't see that as a reason to abandon the idea. My biggest concern, assuming we are going to keep the tilting cab design functional, is how to seal the cab to the box? Will cutting lout the back of the cab weaken it too much to allow the tilting operation? What size opening would we be able to do (i.e. would it even be functional)? Looking at some of those horse lorries, it looked like it was more akin to a crawl thru vs a duck thru (ShowHauler and the like) much less a walk thru (Kingsley and PowerHouse).

I have a call with the engineer up at Kingsley tomorrow about a possible new coach so I'll talk to him and see what he thinks.

I'll keep you posted.

I know when I was trying to order a new Volvo for my Kingsley back in '04, Volvo would only let you order up to a certain length of frame rail from the factory. We needed more. They agreed to let me order it but the Volvo engineers wanted to do extensive testing on it AT MY EXPENSE and it was going to take 6-8 months to complete. It was just easier to buy existing and stretch.

In looking at some of the setups on the different European truck sites, it looks like they will allow a pretty long wheelbase to be ordered. But who knows, it could be completely different here in the good ole USA.