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Old 03-08-2019, 07:55 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by rvmaker View Post
When you speak of ventilation, are you talking about between the insulation and the outer skin of the box?

Can You explain this with a pic?
and I was planning on notching a hole at the ends of each joist and alternating the holes, then having a fan that can be snapped on, or run on a timer.
This is not a good idea:
to coat the original wood floor of the truck with fiberglass resin to help prevent moisture damage to the floor decking. Am I on the right path in my thinking?
In structures, water flows down, but also from warm to cool, thick to thin. Plywood is problematic because it is layered thin-thick-thin-thick, thick glue between layers of wood. When creating a temperature difference of at least 2°C the water starts to flow towards the cold. Steam pressure is higher in warm than cold. In case of barriers, it will be stuck and stay for prolonged periods - to reach temperature or pressure difference to flow again. For this reason, flooded houses are tough to dry. Standing moist feeds all kinds of fungi and other micro-organisms and they tend to cause problems. Not to mention the freeze-thaw cycle in a colder climate. Water expands when it freezes causing moist structures to break.

For example, freight containers or vans have this problem - the density is reversed, the thick side is outermost layer and water has nowhere to go. Therefore it condensates and drips down. The worst possible mistake is to use mineral- or other kinds of wool insulation inside. I see this a lot.

Spray Foam PU attaches seamlessly to metal surface leaving no space for water. It also mutes the temperature difference from the surface, so the moist (steam) stays in the air and then that needs to be vented out.
RV maker, I'm intrigued by what you're saying, but have a few concerns.....

My first concern is the introduction of water in the form of a potential leak. I remain committed to trying to prevent this from happening, but would like to build with the possibility that if ever I did get rain water inside the enclosure, that I can get it out. That being said....... I'm especially concerned where the sprayed in closed cell insulation is utilized, and the insulation begins to deteriorate from the heat hitting the roof. I know that just a small little break in paint coatings such as a rock chip in a vehicles paint for instance, is an entry point for water to get under the paint. So I'm thinking that any point where water can actually reach the sprayed in foam, via a gap or hole in the box (which is going to be more likely to happen than not, lets face it.) I'd just be concerned that this water will be working at the bond between the foam and aluminum, and becoming a source of trapped water. So I was planning (although still researching) on using sheets of rigid closed cell, and leaving a 1/2 inch gap between this insulation, and the box at all points..... floor, walls and ceiling. On the inside, I would of course be applying a vapor barrier to prevent moisture from the living space, from getting to the cooler environment outside the insulation, and creating condensation. This was also the reason I was considering a fan, to circulate air throughout the gapped areas I was talking about, to assist in equalizing the temperature between the gap, and the outside of the box, as well as serving as ventilation should water (from rain or melting snow ever get in the box. I plan on doing routine checks and maintenance to prevent it, but just in case.......

By the way..... photos or sketches are forthcoming..........
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Old 03-08-2019, 03:45 PM   #12
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When you speak of ventilation, are you talking about between the insulation and the outer skin of the box?
No, I was speaking about water damp inside the living space due to breathing, shower water damp, cooking damp.

Here in Europe, to get a RV title, we have to have sufficient ventilation, low an high, to be sure fresh air comes into the living space, to avoid moisture and possible suffocation. Those high and low openings have to be permanent open, they may not be closed in any way.

But, your point is important, some reefer "sandwich" boxes made out of ply or polyurethane foam covered with polyester inside and out, may get water into the wood when damaged, and rot happens.

In my case, my box is aluminum panels riveted to steel brackets, it is watertight, I tested it before I insulated it, but I didn't let a space between the outer aluminum skin and the polyurethane sheets I've put between the brackets. The insulation (PUR sheeting) I used cannot rot.

My truck stays undercover when parked, is fully ventilated by those openings, I never have had water damp in the living space.

the low ventilation happens near the main door, you may see the grille at the feet of the door on the picture under, and the high ventilation goes through three skylights on the roof, which are built to allow air to go through
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Old 03-10-2019, 01:19 AM   #13
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Those vents are indeed odd then!

It'd never work here because our Winters get down below zero and a few times I've seen it more than 30 below zero F. It's snowed here in June before, several times. We do use that concept in our homes roof systems where they put vents under the eaves and at the roof ridgeline to allow vapor (moisture) to escape that has come from the living space. It also serves to remove heat in our Summers, from the attic, since the air movement is above the insulation, outside of the living space. This was kind of the rational for applying this concept to my RV, is that it's really common place here. Do you have to do that with your homes too, or just the RVs? For a time, we had what we call "Super Good Cents) which was a system intended to make homes more energy efficient. It moved to more stringient building codes and morphed into "Northwest Energy code" and "Advanced Framing / Green building". Homes became so airtight, they had to start installing fans that were on timers, to pump outside fresh air into the closets of the house, and they vented into the closets so that you didn't have drafts that could be felt. Homes were so airtight that they would actually pressurize them with a fan, to be sure that they passed inspection and airtightness. This practice has long been abandoned now, although some of the core principles of the code still remain, but homes are not quite so airtight anymore so as to require pumping in fresh air from the outside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus View Post
No, I was speaking about water damp inside the living space due to breathing, shower water damp, cooking damp.

Here in Europe, to get a RV title, we have to have sufficient ventilation, low an high, to be sure fresh air comes into the living space, to avoid moisture and possible suffocation. Those high and low openings have to be permanent open, they may not be closed in any way.

But, your point is important, some reefer "sandwich" boxes made out of ply or polyurethane foam covered with polyester inside and out, may get water into the wood when damaged, and rot happens.

In my case, my box is aluminum panels riveted to steel brackets, it is watertight, I tested it before I insulated it, but I didn't let a space between the outer aluminum skin and the polyurethane sheets I've put between the brackets. The insulation (PUR sheeting) I used cannot rot.

My truck stays undercover when parked, is fully ventilated by those openings, I never have had water damp in the living space.

the low ventilation happens near the main door, you may see the grille at the feet of the door on the picture under, and the high ventilation goes through three skylights on the roof, which are built to allow air to go through
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Old 03-10-2019, 04:56 AM   #14
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Only to be applied into RV's.

Right now, my truck has been parked under heavy rain, I started it this morning to move it, no dampness in the box at all.

We also have the same codes for new houses, they become so airtight and so dearly insulated that the heat of people, a fridge condenser and a laptop or PC tower is sufficient to heat the whole house!
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:38 AM   #15
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Well, right now, I have over 2 feet of snow on the ground and it's been melting the past couple days. As soon as I can walk out to it easily, I'll be starting on the truck again and posting phote's for everyone to view.
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:33 PM   #16
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You tube has a large number of build outs with all types of vehicles....Cheap RV Living is a good place.......
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:32 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinder View Post
You tube has a large number of build outs with all types of vehicles....Cheap RV Living is a good place.......

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAj...bkIR54hAn6Zz7A


That indeed was pretty cool!
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:34 AM   #18
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This one seems to be quite functional:
https://www.ortontransit.info





Each and every detail is thought over.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:37 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by hoodoo valley View Post
Those vents are indeed odd then!

It'd never work here because our Winters get down below zero and a few times I've seen it more than 30 below zero F. It's snowed here in June before, several times. We do use that concept in our homes roof systems where they put vents under the eaves and at the roof ridgeline to allow vapor (moisture) to escape that has come from the living space. It also serves to remove heat in our Summers, from the attic, since the air movement is above the insulation, outside of the living space. This was kind of the rational for applying this concept to my RV, is that it's really common place here. Do you have to do that with your homes too, or just the RVs? For a time, we had what we call "Super Good Cents) which was a system intended to make homes more energy efficient. It moved to more stringient building codes and morphed into "Northwest Energy code" and "Advanced Framing / Green building". Homes became so airtight, they had to start installing fans that were on timers, to pump outside fresh air into the closets of the house, and they vented into the closets so that you didn't have drafts that could be felt. Homes were so airtight that they would actually pressurize them with a fan, to be sure that they passed inspection and airtightness. This practice has long been abandoned now, although some of the core principles of the code still remain, but homes are not quite so airtight anymore so as to require pumping in fresh air from the outside.

This is good idea:
https://www.ortontransit.info/floor-vent
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Old 03-16-2019, 02:08 AM   #20
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I actually had envisioned something very similar except that my set up will be outside the insulation and walls, and inside the box. I was planning on a fan for the floor, but still unsure about the walls and ceiling portion. Another couple weeks and the snow will have melted off enough to walk out there to the truck, and once that happens, I'll be starting on the project and posting updates and photos.
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