Join Truck Conversion Today
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-01-2012, 08:49 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Bob86ZZ4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,814
Default Truck conversion crash kills 5 in Kansas

Early reports are saying a truck conversion rv pulling a race trailer crashed killing 5 of the 18 occupants. Wow, they had 18 people in the rv? Looks like the t/c might have had three rear axles in one of the pictures. The trailer has 3 axles. Said they were coming back from a race event in Texas heading home to MN. No other vehicles involved as far as known yet. The picture shows the box pretty much disintegrated. I wonder who made it? I don't remember ever seeing a t/c with three rear axles. Anybody know more about this? I can't find the pictures I was looking at to link to. Anybody else find the pictures to link here?
__________________

__________________
'03 Freightliner FL112, 295" wheel base, with '03 United Specialties 26' living quarters, single screw, Cat C12 430 h/p 1650 torque, Eaton 10speed , 3.42 rear axle ratio
Bob86ZZ4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 08:51 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Bob86ZZ4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,814
Default

Here's a link with the story and some pics: 5 from Jordan, Minn., killed in Kansas RV crash | StarTribune.com
__________________

__________________
'03 Freightliner FL112, 295" wheel base, with '03 United Specialties 26' living quarters, single screw, Cat C12 430 h/p 1650 torque, Eaton 10speed , 3.42 rear axle ratio
Bob86ZZ4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 08:55 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Bob86ZZ4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,814
Default

I think the picture I had seen was misleading about the drive axles. Looks like the picture in that link above only shows two drive axles. But look at the sofa. Not much structure there.
__________________
'03 Freightliner FL112, 295" wheel base, with '03 United Specialties 26' living quarters, single screw, Cat C12 430 h/p 1650 torque, Eaton 10speed , 3.42 rear axle ratio
Bob86ZZ4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 11:25 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
#90-GTSC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Grafton
Posts: 285
Default

Long wheelbase on the truck. Look closely at one of the pictures. Did the chassis bend near the middle? Where it was stretched?

I wonder if the truck rolled over, or did it come apart because the chassis flexing or bending at the stretch as it went down into the ravine.

Must have been an absolute nightmare.
__________________
Started looking for 379 Peterbilt TC, 24' to 30' box, bumper pull--but ended up w/1999 Liberty Coach conversion of 45' Prevost XLV bus. 1,000sf heated/AC'd race shop w/dump station, 50amp shore pwr where bus parks, 3 NASCAR/ARCA race cars & 26' Bravo trailer.
#90-GTSC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 11:46 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Grand Forks BC Canada
Posts: 167
Default

I've been looking hard at this mess because I am close to ordering a conversion. It looks like the cab roof has been cut for a large walk thru or perhaps has an aero cab converted. Looks like a FRP type conversion or whatever you want to call the Renegade, Haulmark, Optima, etc style wall. Would the steel frame construction NRC, Showhauler survive any better? The answer may be in the trailer condition. Same old reasoning about seatbelts saving lives-keep the occuppant in the vehicle and they have a better chance of living-of course the vehicle has to remain together for this to happen. A shame for sure but there may be lessons in the outcome.
Gordy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 12:53 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 527
Default

I was thinking the same thing on FRP walls. That is the only way I can figure everything just came apart clean at the floor frame level like that. Any sort of superstructure framing would show some evidence remaining above the floor level. And the trailer structure stayed largely intact with a traditional steel frame walls and ceiling, while the truck simple came apart at the seams. Could have been a homebuilt as well, except we all seem to err on the side of overbuilt. I did see a youtube video of a home build of a 5th wheel trailer than had not one bit of metal beyond the chassis, the entire superstructure was plywood. My bet is on FRP though.

Good point on the cab cutout. I was planning a large cutout, and my only thought was how to make the hole to work well with a seal/boot. Now I'm thinking about how to reinforce the opening to make up for the lost strength. Should have been obvious in retrospect. On the other hand, would even an unmodified cab be expected to hold up with 40,000# of truck rolling over on it?

Any guess on how long that entire rig was? looks like a 30-32' (plus tongue) triaxle trailer, and 40-45' truck. Was it even legal? Was this one of those over length race rigs that we all wonder how they even go down the road without getting stopped? Could be part of the cause, those really long rigs get in trouble fast if you get just a little bit out of shape, like crosswinds etc.

Regardless, terrible tragedy for the family and our hearts go out.
hot rod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 08:17 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Bob86ZZ4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,814
Default

Newss this morning said the 17 year old son was driving and he survived. So the cab did it's job if that's right. I think the mom survived too. Wonder if she was in the cab. Said it hit the guardrail and went over. I wonder if he blew a steer tire? Remember if you blow a steer you should floor the go pedal to maintain control. Don't hit the brakes.
__________________
'03 Freightliner FL112, 295" wheel base, with '03 United Specialties 26' living quarters, single screw, Cat C12 430 h/p 1650 torque, Eaton 10speed , 3.42 rear axle ratio
Bob86ZZ4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 09:05 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
GENECARP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 256
Default

What a horrible tragedy , I hope a full investigation is done, I would be good to have some insight on the cause. Be careful out there.....
__________________
http://youtu.be/938JJIX-w8E
GENECARP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 11:13 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Grand Forks BC Canada
Posts: 167
Default

The other interesting thing is that the trailer is facing the motorhome, it become completely disconnected from the tow vehicle. Who knows how this tragedy happened but an investigation would be interesting and informative. BTW-18 people in a coach-what's up with that?????
Gordy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 11:25 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Bob86ZZ4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,814
Default

One of the pics made it look like the cab had a big cut out. But I just saw a pretty good AP picture that makes it pretty claear the cab roof wasn't cut.
__________________
'03 Freightliner FL112, 295" wheel base, with '03 United Specialties 26' living quarters, single screw, Cat C12 430 h/p 1650 torque, Eaton 10speed , 3.42 rear axle ratio
Bob86ZZ4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 11:46 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Camano Island, WA
Posts: 163
Default

I would agree on either FRP/Vacuum formed walls or perhaps wood framed. Looks like the walls were built as components and then assembled onto the truck creating weak points at all the joints as they are only fastened by some screws. I have seen several serious accidents and roll overs of RV's built like this, and they have all pretty much "come apart at the seams". I am not sure that even if the occupants were wearing seat belts the injuries and fatalities would have been any less due to the lack of structure remaining. It is even possible that some survived because they were thrown clear. I am sure that a welded tube steel structure would have survived much better, protected the cab somewhat and improved survival chances for properly restrained occupants. Even then it would still be a heck of a ride down that embankment. That was an awful lot of rig and responsibility for a 17 year old to be driving, you just do not have the experience to deal with even a small problem or error at that age. No matter what happened to cause the accident, my heart goes out to the entire family for their loss and especially to the young man that was driving, just knowing that he was the one behind the wheel when it happened is something that will change every day of his life forever.

The fact that there was two off duty nurses who saw the accident and climbed down into the ravine to render aid probably helped to save more lives also.

Dave
Dragonslayer140 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 01:58 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
GENECARP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 256
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob86ZZ4 View Post
One of the pics made it look like the cab had a big cut out. But I just saw a pretty good AP picture that makes it pretty claear the cab roof wasn't cut.
Maybe rescue workers did some cutting......G
__________________
http://youtu.be/938JJIX-w8E
GENECARP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 07:55 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
bushpilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tomball
Posts: 1,414
Default

17 yrs old...too young TOO inexperienced PERIOD....add to that towing a HUGE 3 axle trailer <UGH> !

Im gonna bet he ran off the road in the wrong place and the guard rail carried them over or he was off the road by then and caught the drivers side w/ the guard rail.

wish we could see that passenger side front tire.

its a big/long coach - twin drive axles...and then the trailer...man thats a lot for anyone <w/ experience> to handle !
__________________
Don R.
'04 Haulmark (M42386) 42', 2 slide, 10kw - Pictures
'04 F350 CrewCab Longbed 4x4, 50g aux tank & gear vendors dbl over
bushpilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 08:17 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
#90-GTSC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Grafton
Posts: 285
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob86ZZ4 View Post
Newss this morning said the 17 year old son was driving and he survived. So the cab did it's job if that's right. I think the mom survived too. Wonder if she was in the cab. Said it hit the guardrail and went over. I wonder if he blew a steer tire? Remember if you blow a steer you should floor the go pedal to maintain control. Don't hit the brakes.
I was wondering who was driving and how qualified. I'm concerned there might be a call for "more regulation" and requirements for driving big RVs. I would presume a 17 y/o can't get a CDL with the qualifications for this to have been legal. I'm concerned its just a matter of time before the feds or some of the states start to require special licenses for heavy RVs.

"blow a steer you should floor the go pedal to maintain control" How do you ever slow down? Wait until you have control, are in the middle of the road, and then slowly apply brakes? Hit the gas to get the weight off the front end?

We talked a little about weight and balance and concerns about not overloading the front axle. Does a heavy front axle exacerbate the problem?
__________________
Started looking for 379 Peterbilt TC, 24' to 30' box, bumper pull--but ended up w/1999 Liberty Coach conversion of 45' Prevost XLV bus. 1,000sf heated/AC'd race shop w/dump station, 50amp shore pwr where bus parks, 3 NASCAR/ARCA race cars & 26' Bravo trailer.
#90-GTSC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 08:18 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
#90-GTSC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Grafton
Posts: 285
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonslayer140 View Post
I would agree on either FRP/Vacuum formed walls or perhaps wood framed. Looks like the walls were built as components and then assembled onto the truck creating weak points at all the joints as they are only fastened by some screws. I have seen several serious accidents and roll overs of RV's built like this, and they have all pretty much "come apart at the seams".
Thanks for saying that. I just learned a ton!
__________________
Started looking for 379 Peterbilt TC, 24' to 30' box, bumper pull--but ended up w/1999 Liberty Coach conversion of 45' Prevost XLV bus. 1,000sf heated/AC'd race shop w/dump station, 50amp shore pwr where bus parks, 3 NASCAR/ARCA race cars & 26' Bravo trailer.
#90-GTSC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 09:14 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Bob86ZZ4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,814
Default

Here's a pretty good video about how to maintain control in a rapid steer tire deflation, including why to step on the go pedal first:
__________________
'03 Freightliner FL112, 295" wheel base, with '03 United Specialties 26' living quarters, single screw, Cat C12 430 h/p 1650 torque, Eaton 10speed , 3.42 rear axle ratio
Bob86ZZ4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 09:31 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Bob86ZZ4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,814
Default

Don (bushpilot), 17 does sound young to drive a big rig. But, I hesitate to say too young. I bet a 17 yr. old could be just as competent of a rv driver as some extremely much older drivers I've seen behind the wheel of big campers. I think it depends on the individual. When my son was 15 he shared the driving of my Allegro a lot. And I think he did a great job. He's now 23 and a truck driver in the Army Reserve (one tour in Iraq, probably headed to Afganistan next)(he drives HETS, check out some vids of those on youtube), and has been a truck driver since he turned 18 and could legally drive a semi intrastate. Then he went over the road as soon as he turned 21 and could go over state lines. Anyhow, I don't really want the government deciding somebody has to be over another age to drive a camper. I think it opens up a can of worms. I'm not opposed to requiring testing in the veh. you want to drive though.
__________________
'03 Freightliner FL112, 295" wheel base, with '03 United Specialties 26' living quarters, single screw, Cat C12 430 h/p 1650 torque, Eaton 10speed , 3.42 rear axle ratio
Bob86ZZ4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 09:42 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Bob86ZZ4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,814
Default

Another thing that might come out of this. Were they down there racing? Did they get any prizes or money? Do they have any commercial sponsors for their racing efforts? If any of that is a "yes," then they've violated laws. Because a 17 year old can't operate a commercial vehicle. And, you can't use a recreational vehicle as a commercial vehicle. And, if it's over 26k lbs. (just the tow vehicle without the trailer) then it needs D.O.T. inspection. If the cause of the accident was a steer tire blowout, maybe a D.O.T. inspection would have caught old tires? If there was a medical problem with the driver maybe a health card checkup would have caught that. If the driver was fatigued maybe following the driving time restrictions might have prevented that. All of this speculation is very premature, I know. Let's keep an open mind about this until we find out what the reconstructionists figure out about it. But we can still speculate.
__________________
'03 Freightliner FL112, 295" wheel base, with '03 United Specialties 26' living quarters, single screw, Cat C12 430 h/p 1650 torque, Eaton 10speed , 3.42 rear axle ratio
Bob86ZZ4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 09:51 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
bushpilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tomball
Posts: 1,414
Default

good point bob - but of course your kid is the exception.

i might put my kid behind the wheel w/ me co-piloting....but i sure as hell wouldnt do it w/ 18 passengers (btw id NEVER take 18 people in our coach) !
__________________
Don R.
'04 Haulmark (M42386) 42', 2 slide, 10kw - Pictures
'04 F350 CrewCab Longbed 4x4, 50g aux tank & gear vendors dbl over
bushpilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 09:58 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Bob86ZZ4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,814
Default

Ya, 18 is pretty crowded. The most I've rolled with is 7 total. That wasn't too bad. Except my brother-in-law snores louder than a locomotive at full power. He'll never be sleeping in my rv again. Ever.
__________________

__________________
'03 Freightliner FL112, 295" wheel base, with '03 United Specialties 26' living quarters, single screw, Cat C12 430 h/p 1650 torque, Eaton 10speed , 3.42 rear axle ratio
Bob86ZZ4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×