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Old 04-21-2011, 09:50 AM   #1
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Default Tools for dually Budd’s – Should I buy some?

My Mitsubishi Fuso has dual wheels in the back with Budd's. I gather this is a fairly standard but somewhat old fashioned technology for mounting the wheels. The inner stud-nut has a 13/16" square drive, and the outer flat nut is 41mm, which is (I gather) a little larger than the more common 1 1/2" size used on American trucks. I've never had them apart but from my net research I gather that the inner stud-nuts have a double sided cone that centers the wheels on the studs, not on the wheel hub which is the more modern method.

My front tires were worn and the side walls were starting to crack, so I dropped by my local tire shop to see if they could sell and install the tires I needed. Somewhat to my surprise they said they could, and ultimately they did. The sales guy told me, however, that if I had wanted to replace the rear tires they would not have been able to help me because of the rear wheel Budd's.

So later I got to thinking that perhaps I should buy the necessary sockets and keep them with the truck. I have no intention to buy a big breaker bar, or a heavy duty torque wrench, or an impact wrench. I am not trying to become entirely self sufficient in terms of being able to change a wheel. My truck doesn't even carry a spare or a jack for that matter. I just figure that if my wheels are somewhat unusual then I might increase my chances of getting whatever I might need from a less than fully equipped tire shop or possibly some sort of road side assistance.

So, my first round of question is… Is there any reasonable logic to buying the necessary tools to get to some relatively standard interface like a 1" socket drive? Are my wheels that unusual? If the shop or road side assistance provider doesn't have the proper tools for my truck, should I be running the other way because they are obviously not competent to touch the truck in the first place?

Beyond all that, I did some research to find out what was involved and what it might cost. None of this matters if buying the tools is a bad idea, but I am still curious because some of this doesn't make sense to me.

I found this socket for $33.00

OTC , 1947A 1 In Dr Budd Wheel Socket - 41mm Hex

The add says, "Socket works on the import truck Budd wheels. Extra deep design lets you remove both nut & stud w/ just the one socket."

I don't get how that is possible. I understand how I need a very deep 41mm socket to remove the outer flat nut, but I don't see how that socket is going to engage the 13/16" square on the end of the stud-nut. I don't have a cross section of the socket but I find it hard to believe that the 13/16" square opening is up inside the socket. That would imply that it was intended to engage both the square on the stud-nut and the hex on the flat nut simultaneously. It seems unlikely that they would be aligned just right to even allow that, but even if they were, the whole thing would bind on the outer wheel as you tried to unscrew it.

I assume that the proper procedure is to remove the outer flat nut first, (and the outer wheel) and then remove the inner stud-nut. Am I missing something?

I have also found 13/16" square sockets like this one…

Grey 1" Drive Standard Square Socket (13/16'') (GP-4313S): All Tire Supply Company

I can even imagine how you could have a double ended socket with 13/16" square opening on one end, 41mm hex drive on the other, and 3/4" square drive in the middle. At least 3/4" is less than 13/16" so you could theoretically get a 3/4" extension to fit . Even if that is how it works, I am not sure if I would need to buy a 3/4" extension as well. I am also not sure if 3/4" or 1" square drives are the better or more commonly available option in a typical shop, or if 3/4" is really stout enough to handle the task.

Obviously I have way more questions than answers, so please take pity on me and point me in the right direction….
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Old 04-21-2011, 04:23 PM   #2
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My experience with Budd wheels goes back to the 80's on GM medium duty trucks, and may be only generally comparable to your truck. You are correct in the assembly order of the studs/nuts/wheels. Not sure on your wrench sizes though. I know the one good thing I can remember on those is you can change the rear outer with out a jack, you just drive the inner up on a block and remove the outer wheel.

My opinion is to always carry tools on the road. Particularly a specialty tool that may be needed for my vehicle. On the other hand, if you are not changing the tire your self, you are going to need a semi tire type tire service and they should have the correct jack and tools to do the job. You might not like the price though. Just assume AAA is out of the question on your truck. Also, some of those nuts are all but impossible to get off without an air impact wrench, or 2 guys and a really long cheater pipe on the wrench. But when it comes down to it, if that $40 tool gets you out of one pinch in your life, it was worth having it in the toolbox.
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Old 04-22-2011, 10:22 PM   #3
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Lets assume I am going to buy the socket (because I am). Would you suggest I get the one with 1" drive or 3/4" drive? I am just thinking to get whatever is most common. Of course, if the 3/4" drive isn't stout enough then that drives the answer as well.
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Old 04-22-2011, 11:12 PM   #4
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We had a 3/4" air impact we used on those, but I have also seen semi guys use a 1" impact. Are you planning on carrying a breaker bar to go with it? I'm thinking a 3/4 breaker bar is probably the most cost effective (Harbor Freight, etc.) along with a cheater pipe that can double for a hand held security system in a pinch. If you really can't decide on the socket, get the 1" and a reducer to 3/4", that covers all possibilities.

Are you planning on carrying a mounted spare, or just relying on a tire service? Even if you are going to use a service to change the tires and don't want to carry a full mounted spare, consider at least a spare tire tire without a wheel as a minimum. If you are counting on the tire service to supply the new tire they can be very pricey and you are stuck with whatever brand and tread they have in stock. I know a lot of RV types carry a loose matching spare at least that way when the road service has to come you are still going to have matching tires on the truck. I don't know what your outside storage is like, but maybe a cable winch like they use on the chevy pickups could be adapted to crank it up underneath ahead of the rear bumper. Just thinking out loud.
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:20 PM   #5
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Default Answers for HotRod

I wasn't planning on carrying a mounted spare or even just the tire. I looked under my truck to see if there is even room, and there is, but it's not ideal. I have purchased roadside assistance from Coachnet:

NMC | Roadside Assistance - RV Plans

You have me thinking about the matching tire issue, and also the possible cost of getting gouged on the road when they know they've got me by the short hairs. I am not sure how far I want to go down the path of being able to replace a tire myself. It's something to think about though....
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