Truck Conversion & Toterhome Community - View Single Post

Mike E · 08-09-2003, 11:21 PM

Good luck trying to obtain a list from the DMV. I contacted the head office in Sacramento and discovered there is such a list in the DMV manual but they refused to give me a copy. A supervisor told me DMV policy dictates that the list is not for distribution to the general public and therefore DMV employees are not allowed to give out copies. When I asked him how the public can be expected to comply with the requirements if not allowed to see them, I got the typical DMV broken record response where he repeated what he had just told me. That means you will need to find someone in a DMV office who is either unaware of the policy or is willing to break the rules and hand it out. Most often the counter people are unwilling to go out on a limb so they call in a supervisor who proceeds to quote DMV policy for the umteenth time. However, in the L.A. Times article about Mr. Emanuele's battle with the DMV which was reprinted in this forum (http://www.truckhome.com/groupee/for...7&m=3156082373) and (http://www.truckhome.com/groupee/for...m=2246082373), I noticed that the California DMV is a member of the American Assn. of Motor Vehicle Administrators and that the list of criteria for a motorhome from the Association sounds just like the list the DMV employee in Sacramento read to me from the manual. If so, I'm sure the Association will be less stingy about giving out a copy. Be aware, however, that DMV policy is not binding law in the same way that a statute or a regulation is. It is a guideline that may be persuasive but only becomes binding law when a Ca. Appellate Court or the Ca. Supreme Court says it is and that has not happened yet. That goes both ways, i.e. technically you don't have to follow the list but even if you do everything on the list, the DMV may still deny you a registration. Although I have not read the case since it is at the trial court level and therefore unlikely to be published, the article indicated that the real concern of the DMV was that Mr. Emanuele's truck was designed to be a tractor and since it retained its 5th wheel its purpose had not changed despite its conversion to a motorhome. Although VC § 362 does not specifically say that, note that it also does not include an exception for a house car not to be deemed a truck tractor as it does for a motortruck. The DMV can and may have argued that if the legislature had intended to exclude a truck tractor in the statute it would have done so and the omission is evidence of legislative intent not to exclude truck tractors as part of this exception. Since it is not clear, it is ultimately up to a judge to decide on a case-by-case basis until an upper court decision comes down. Since taking the DMV to court is a hit or miss proposition at best and certain to be expensive, the best course is probably to follow Larry's (and others) lead and go to various DMV offices until one goes along with the motorhome registration. To that end, since the 5th wheel seems to be the main point of contention, geof's suggestion to remove it and add it back on later may be a good one since there is no statue or regulation specifically prohibiting its addition after you have secured the registration (technically, one might be better off starting with a straight truck since you can then argue that it was never designed to be a tractor in the first place). Note that the definition specifies designed and used, not designed or used.

VC § 655. "Truck tractor"

(a) A "truck tractor" is a motor vehicle designed and used primarily for drawing other vehicles and not so constructed as to carry a load, other than a part of the weight of the vehicle and the load so drawn. As used in this section, "load" does not include items carried on the truck tractor in conjunction with the operation of the vehicle if the load carrying space for these items does not exceed 34 square feet.

08-09-2003, 11:21 PM	#10
Mike E Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Yorba Linda, CA, USA Posts: 35	Good luck trying to obtain a list from the DMV. I contacted the head office in Sacramento and discovered there is such a list in the DMV manual but they refused to give me a copy. A supervisor told me DMV policy dictates that the list is not for distribution to the general public and therefore DMV employees are not allowed to give out copies. When I asked him how the public can be expected to comply with the requirements if not allowed to see them, I got the typical DMV broken record response where he repeated what he had just told me. That means you will need to find someone in a DMV office who is either unaware of the policy or is willing to break the rules and hand it out. Most often the counter people are unwilling to go out on a limb so they call in a supervisor who proceeds to quote DMV policy for the umteenth time. However, in the L.A. Times article about Mr. Emanuele's battle with the DMV which was reprinted in this forum (http://www.truckhome.com/groupee/for...7&m=3156082373) and (http://www.truckhome.com/groupee/for...m=2246082373), I noticed that the California DMV is a member of the American Assn. of Motor Vehicle Administrators and that the list of criteria for a motorhome from the Association sounds just like the list the DMV employee in Sacramento read to me from the manual. If so, I'm sure the Association will be less stingy about giving out a copy. Be aware, however, that DMV policy is not binding law in the same way that a statute or a regulation is. It is a guideline that may be persuasive but only becomes binding law when a Ca. Appellate Court or the Ca. Supreme Court says it is and that has not happened yet. That goes both ways, i.e. technically you don't have to follow the list but even if you do everything on the list, the DMV may still deny you a registration. Although I have not read the case since it is at the trial court level and therefore unlikely to be published, the article indicated that the real concern of the DMV was that Mr. Emanuele's truck was designed to be a tractor and since it retained its 5th wheel its purpose had not changed despite its conversion to a motorhome. Although VC § 362 does not specifically say that, note that it also does not include an exception for a house car not to be deemed a truck tractor as it does for a motortruck. The DMV can and may have argued that if the legislature had intended to exclude a truck tractor in the statute it would have done so and the omission is evidence of legislative intent not to exclude truck tractors as part of this exception. Since it is not clear, it is ultimately up to a judge to decide on a case-by-case basis until an upper court decision comes down. Since taking the DMV to court is a hit or miss proposition at best and certain to be expensive, the best course is probably to follow Larry's (and others) lead and go to various DMV offices until one goes along with the motorhome registration. To that end, since the 5th wheel seems to be the main point of contention, geof's suggestion to remove it and add it back on later may be a good one since there is no statue or regulation specifically prohibiting its addition after you have secured the registration (technically, one might be better off starting with a straight truck since you can then argue that it was never designed to be a tractor in the first place). Note that the definition specifies designed and used, not designed or used. VC § 655. "Truck tractor" (a) A "truck tractor" is a motor vehicle designed and used primarily for drawing other vehicles and not so constructed as to carry a load, other than a part of the weight of the vehicle and the load so drawn. As used in this section, "load" does not include items carried on the truck tractor in conjunction with the operation of the vehicle if the load carrying space for these items does not exceed 34 square feet.